Talk:Elena Ceaușescu

Birthday

Lavinea Betea's biography Tovarasa. Biografia Elenei Ceausescu, Corint, Bucuresti, 2021 states her birthday is 7 January 1919.

Mother

Has anyone got a citation that her mother outlived her?

Yes, it's in Betea's new biography. See https://www.clb.ro/tovarasa-biografia-elenei-ceausescu-0000220123--p369148.html

POV?

This article seems quite POV to me, and I detect a strong elitist bias against Elena's class background. Everyking 12:50, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm... I detect a strong bias against the author's elitist background. Beerathon 12:26, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the NPOV template, please use {{POV-section}} for sections or {{POV-statement}} for sentences, then detail issues here. This will help address them in a timely manner. - RoyBoy 04:34, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Rush to Nicolas Ceausescu and discuss the neutrality

This article is very objective to me, in front of the article written on her husband. Please rush to Nicolae Ceausescu and discuss the neutrality of the article. Please. Please. I've written a comment. Fred82 04:02, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Big mistake: her adopted son was Valentin, not Nicu! Nicu was her real child! Anton

This article is clearly not neutral. It is argumentative and polemical in tone. I don't know if this is on account of contributors being ESL or not. No one (in his or her right mind) would defend the Ceauşescus, but no one reading this page in English could argue that it presents an unbiased viewpoint. For a good model of how to write about despicable historical figures in a neutral manner, check out the article on Hitler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.80.65.197 (talk) 23:55, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree,The article is overly biased against the Ceauşescu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.17.149.216 (talk) 07:38, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

This article is completely biased against the personality and should be removed immediately! Amartya ray2001 (talk) 21:45, 16 December 2009 (UTC) Amartya Ray ( http://www.poemsnprose.com )

Photo

Does anyone have a photo of this very ugly woman? --Thus Spake Anittas 17:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, I feel sick. --Thus Spake Anittas 18:16, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Dahn

She was sometimes nicknamed "Codoi", referring to her alleged mispronunciation of the name of the chemical compound CO2, being mocked by many, including an official during her show trial

I asked Anonimu to attach his source which calls the trial for a "show trial" to the fragment; because none of the four sources which are attached to the fragment, mention that. That is what makes it misleading. The four sources are there to support the nickname of "Codoi," not the status of the trial. In short, I agree with what you said, but I'm not sure you understand what I had said. --Thus Spake Anittas 20:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

For those of us who aren't familiar with the language, could you provide a brief explanation of what the actual spelling and/or pronunciation of the name of CO₂ should be in Romanian? Many thanks. 174.111.242.35 (talk) 12:10, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

It is pronounced as 'kɔ'dɔɪ. It means literally "long tail" (pejorative). It is part of the Romanian folklore. As a Romanian, I heard such jokes about her. During and after the Romanian coup it was used on TV and in newspapers in order to mock her. Tgeorgescu (talk) 16:09, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale

I removed Image:Ceausescu5.jpg from this page, because it does not have a unique fair use rationale for this image. If you want to put the image back, please add {{Non-free media rationale}} to the image description page. Thank you. – Ilse@ 11:47, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

she was a quasi-illiterate

where do you guys getting your facts!? there's no debate, or question about her "studies". she didn't graduated anything, not even fara frecventa, everything was faked. I think she finished 4 grades or something, I'm romanian, I grew up in communist Romania. I know how illiterate and stupid she was. I know you guys want facts, I don't really have the time to find them but if you research the matter further I'm sure the truth comes up easily even on the net. I know about one documentary in which her grades were shown indicating she was failing repeatedly. and it was primary school!

I appreciate wikipedia's fairness, like so many others.

I lived in Romania all my life, and frankly I am tired of hearing of the "wicked" Elena Ceausescu.

Never does anybody talk of redeeming Elena Ceausescu. Every now and then somebody will praise Nicolae Ceausescu but never his wife. She's always there to take the blame she even was shot together with her husband but she is never given any credit for anything. I find this atittude very biased and hard to take seriously. I lived in Romania all my life, and frankly —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.80.101.228 (talk) 14:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, the article renders facts as facts and rumors as rumors. I think it is balanced enough. What might be still added, when the couple faced execution she said "We fought together, together we will die!" and she protested against being handcuffed. This is a heroic attitude towards death. Her husband had a death proper for a martyr of communism, e.g. by singing the International and shouting "May long live the Socialist Romania, free and independent!". These things can be said regardless of whether you see the couple as good or evil. Tgeorgescu (talk) 16:21, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Her year of birth

On her new gravestone it says 1919.[1] I know that she was accused of having falsified her age so that she would not be older than him, but what source is there for 1916? And if there is one, which one is more reliable?--Mycomp (talk) 11:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

This source, which seems to have official standing, confirms the date change. RashersTierney (talk) 09:02, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

File:Elena Ceausescu portrait.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Disputed?

There is a 'disputed' tag, what is disputed? RJFJR (talk) 18:11, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Foreign honours

The discussion of her credentials seems sanitised. I'm sure she received some sort of recognition from The Royal Society in the UK. This should be included, even if the Royal Society might cringe at it now. 121.73.7.84 (talk) 16:27, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

This source indicates she was made a Fellow of the Royal Society: http://www.ceausescu.org/ceausescu_texts/elena_ceausescus_cult.htm 121.73.7.84 (talk) 16:35, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Publications

I think there's been made a mistake in the list of publications about Elena. The cited works are books about biology and molecules, not about her life.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 07:46, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Those are her publications, not about her life. bogdan (talk) 09:10, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Quotes and crimes

There should be a lot more material on her political crimes. According to the book Freakonomics, "“The worms never get satisfied, regardless of how much food you give them,” she said when Romanians complained about the food shortages brought on by her husband’s mismanagement. She had her own children bugged to ensure their loyalty." BrotherSulayman (talk) 22:49, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Her real date of birth

Mrs Ceausescu actual birthdate was January 7, 1916 (not 1919). She forged her birth certificate in order to look younger than Mr. Ceausescu. I'll attach here her death certificate published in the book "Sfarsitul Ceausestilor" by Grigore Cartianu (Editura Adevarul Holding, 2010) -ISBN 978-606-539-244-1 How can i give you the scan from the book? --Mircea romania (talk) 22:55, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Request for Comments

There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

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Name

Even if it is logically correct, it is extremely disturbing that she is repeatedly referred to as Ceausescu in the article. As "Ceausescu" meant her husband in everyday speech. She was rather considered as Petrescu or Elena Ceausescu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.76.9.14 (talk) 16:40, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

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Prostitute

That she had affairs with German officers in order to extract intelligence: probably yes. That she was a prostitute: probably not. She was very much hated. People tell a lot of craps about people they hate. Back then members of the Communist Party were not allowed to exercise free will; they had to do what the Party told them, whether they liked it or not. Free will and morality (moral scruples) were considered bourgeois ideology. Members of the Communist Party were not considered moral agents, but cogwheels of a larger mechanism. They were not supposed to have their own volition, nor independent thinking. The Party told them what to do; the Party told them what to think. Tgeorgescu (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Publications

Elena Ceausescu was an illiterate. She haven't finished more than 4 school years. She couldn't speak proper Romanian. What she published was someone elses work for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2450:102E:1FB:9C99:C22D:4F30:A0DD (talk) 18:04, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Codoi

Codoi is a masculine pejorative meaning exaggerated tail. I can tell you that because I am a native speaker of Romanian. See https://dexonline.ro/definitie/codoi tgeorgescu (talk) 06:30, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Revolution

She orchestrated the Romanian Revolution is a paranoid conspiracy theory. Reason: her husband trusted her and asked often for her advice. So, it's not like she needed more power. tgeorgescu (talk) 14:28, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Patents

@Anonimu: Most Romanians don't buy into her credentials. Why? Because neither of the couple could correctly speak the literary language, which for intellectuals is something not done. Forget about accent, archaisms, and regionalisms: they could not speak proper Romanian language. Why? Because in essence they were uneducated people. I'm not saying that they were unintelligent or something, just that they were uneducated, and most educated people could tell that. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:15, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

I can't really reply to this level of smugness. Happy holidays!Anonimu (talk) 18:59, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

@Anonimu: No, seriously, I am a sociologist and a basic book in sociology is Distinction (book): there are tokens of being highly educated, and highly educated people recognize each other in society. Especially her man had persistent and highly hilarious reading mistakes. I mean: he read a text printed in big letters, and even then he could not properly pronounce some words. And, yup, Romanian language is phonetically written, so one does not need a lot of brains to spell out Romanian words. TV and radio shows of the couple were run according to a propaganda book of rules (e.g. his thought pauses were cut out of the show), but even these shows could not hide their lack of formal education. So, yes, it was a public secret that they lacked education. You cannot fool all the people all the time. And, obviously, they were no foreigners, but native speakers of Romanian. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:39, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

It is widely attested that Ceaușescu had a mild speech impairment (milder that former king Michael's for example), which indeed was constantly hidden by propaganda. Also, there was a general disdain among Romanian intellectuals with a background in humanities towards those with a background in sciences, since the latter were generally better paid and had better chances to advance in their careers in a regime which prioritized technical development. The pompous speech of certain humanities intellectuals, filled with neologisms and calques and barely intelligible to the average Romanian speaker, is also not indicative of standard literary Romanian.Anonimu (talk) 10:34, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Dissertation impact exaggerated

The dissertation is titled the "Stereospecific Polymerization of Isoprene" and has substantial scientific value, being still bought and cited today.

I see no justification for this. The cited Amazon link contains no evidence that anyone has ever purchased her dissertation. Google Scholar (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=15843041156396746636) shows 17 citations of her dissertation. Neither of these constitutes evidence of "substantial scientific value". Jeff.science (talk) 13:35, 9 July 2023 (UTC)