Talk:Electravia

Amendment of the introduction

The date of creation of the company and the names of the founders should be added in the introduction. The current introduction does not provide this important information. Suggested wording with citations:

Electravia - Propellers E-Props is an aeronautical company, founded in 2008 by Anne Lavrand, Jérémie Buiatti and Christian Vandamme. Electravia is specialized in the manufacture of carbon propellers for light aviation (ultralights, motorgliders, paramotors, airships, UAVs and light airplanes).

Marieferey (talk) 14:46, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

References

Thanks for bringing your request here. I have checked the ref you provided and it does not support any of the text you are proposing, including the names of the founders of the company scope. We would be happy to include the list of founders, but we need a ref that lists them. Otherwise, even with refs the wording is not grammatical in English. Fore instance we don't say "an aeronautical company" ad that is a meaningless term, "is specialized in" is poor grammar etc. Overall what you have proposed, even if cleaned up grammatically and properly referenced is too WP:PROMOTIONAL and less useful than what we have right now. It is good to keep in mind that Wikipedia is not your company's website, so it is not necessarily going to say what the company wants it to say. - Ahunt (talk) 15:58, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

The names of the founders are written in the detailed history section. Perhaps this information can be added and the rest of the text kept as it is. I suggest this :

Electravia - Helices E-Props is a French company based in Vaumeilh, founded in 2008 by Anne Lavrand, Jérémie Buiatti and Christian Vandamme. At one time it produced electric propulsion systems and carbon propellers for ultralights, motorgliders, paramotors, airships, UAVs and light airplanes, and now designs and manufactures hi-tech carbon propellers for light aircraft. - Marieferey (talk) 08:23, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

I am not finding that list of names on that page or a "detailed history section". Can you provide a link to the actual page where it lists them? Otherwise your proposed wording looks okay, just need the ref for the names. - Ahunt (talk) 12:24, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

The information is only written in the French version of the site, at the beginning of the fourth part (Historique détaillé): "October 2006: initial idea and beginning of the ELECTRAVIA project in the framework of an aeronautical engineering office (ACV Aéro Service), led by Anne Lavrand, Christian Vandamme and Jérémie Buiatti. " - Marieferey (talk) 09:33, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Okay thanks for pointing that out, but you need to wait for responses here and not carry on editing the company page. You have a declared COI, so risk being blocked if you persist on editing the page. - Ahunt (talk) 14:41, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• E-props.jpg

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Important information added

First, a section dedicated to the history of the company should be added, as the article does not detail it enough. I suggest :

"1. History

The company ELECTRAVIA - HELICES E-PROPS was founded on September 19th 2008 by Anne Lavrand, Jérémie Buiatti and Christian Vandamme. At the time, it mainly produced electric motors for light aircraft.

From 2014, the company stopped making electric motors to focus on the design of carbon propellers. The company developed and became an important French equipment manufacturer in the uncertified light aviation sector. A new building was built, bringing the total workshop area to 21527.82ft² (2,000 m2).

Since 2018, E-PROPS has offered 4,400 models of propellers for paramotors and has become one of the world leaders in this type of propellers. In 2019, the propeller market for paramotors represented 40% of the company's turnover. The company sold 4,500 models in over 80 countries. By 2021, the company is made up of 40 aeronautical engineers and technicians, producing 45,000 propeller blades per year. At the end of 2021, Electravia started the certification work of the company and its propellers according to EASA standards (DOA / CS-P / PART 21G)."

Secondly, I would like to add an information concerning the MC15E Cri-Cri. I suggest :

"It was also the first electric aircraft to cross the English Channel on 9 July 2015. "

Then there are other important electric aircraft in the history of Electravia :

"-the E-FENIX, the first 100% electric two-seater paramotor ;

-the MC30E Luciole, in which the pilot Jean-Louis Soullier set a speed record of 189.87 km/h ;

-the ElectroLight 2, an electric motorglider ;

-the E-SPIDER, the first two-seater electric paramotor with foot-launch. It was presented at the Mondial of Paramotors in Basse-Ham in 2012."

Concerning E-Props propellers, we could add some key information:

"E-Props propellers are fitted to 220 aircraft and microlight models and 150 brands of paramotors. The company works directly with 35 major aircraft and microlight manufacturers. It exports 87% of its production to 82 different countries."

Finally, there is a false information at the end of the article : "Usage is restricted to visual flight rule conditions, bad weather flying is not allowed by the manufacturer". Moreover, the source redirects to a 404 error page.

Thank you for taking the time to check my suggestions !

Marieferey (talk) 10:31, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

References

I'm sorry, but I have been working on this most of the day, translating and trying to correlate what you have written to the refs you provided and cannot make much sense of it. Most of what you have proposed here is not supported by the refs you have proposed and what little is supported is far too disjointed once the unreferenced text is removed, as well as far too spammy and promotional to include. It all reads like marketing language. There is some company history worth including here, spread over all the many refs, but it all needs translating and then rewriting from scratch. It is beyond my ability to do this, given that all the refs are in French, so I am going to have to leave that to see if another editor is able to do it. I'll ask at WikiProject Aircraft and see if anyone can assist.

I was able to fix that broken ref you mentioned with archive.org and it does indeed restrict the use of the propeller to VFR weather operations by the manufacturer, but I have corrected the language to what the reference says. - Ahunt (talk) 02:19, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

ref.1 would support "The company developed and became an important is a French equipment manufacturer in the uncertified light aviation sector."

ref.2 [same as 12] (world leader in its field) can't be supported by a wp:primary source

ref.3 is OK

ref.4 only supports "4500 blades" not 40 people (ref 2/12 supports "40 people" but is primary, but this is not so controversial)

ref.5 + 6 are OK

ref 7 to 11 seem OK

ref.12 [same as 2] could support non controversial statements but not competitive claims ("world leader").--Marc Lacoste (talk) 08:36, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Marc Lacoste:, I appreciate your skill in reading French refs and assessing them. Based on what you have written I think the above proposed additions need to be completely re-written to conform to what the refs say and also eliminate the promotional language. - Ahunt (talk) 13:15, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your feedback ! I rewrote part of my text with new sources, here it is :

"1. History :

The company ELECTRAVIA - HELICES E-PROPS was founded on September 19th 2008 by Anne Lavrand, Jérémie Buiatti and Christian Vandamme. At the time, it mainly produced electric motors for light aircraft.

From 2014, the company stopped making electric motors to focus on the design of carbon propellers. The company is a French equipment manufacturer in the uncertified light aviation sector. A new building was built, bringing the total workshop area to 21527.82ft² (2,000 m2).

In 2019, the propeller market for paramotors represented 40% of the company's turnover. The company sold 4,500 models in over 80 countries. By 2021, the company is made up of 40 aeronautical engineers and technicians, producing 45,000 propeller blades per year. At the end of 2021, Electravia started the certification work of the company and its propellers according to EASA standards (DOA / CS-P / PART 21G)."

"E-Props propellers :

E-Props propellers are fitted to 220 aircraft and microlight models and 150 brands of paramotors. The company works directly with 35 major aircraft and microlight manufacturers. It exports 87% of its production to 80 different countries. - Marieferey (talk) 14:24, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

References

Thanks for the rewrite, that is helpful. I should be able to do something with that today. - Ahunt (talk) 14:47, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done with some adjustments. - Ahunt (talk) 02:03, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much ! Could you also add the passages that were approved by @Marc Lacoste: ?

Concerning the MC15E Cri-Cri : "It was also the first electric aircraft to cross the English Channel on 9 July 2015."

Then I wanted to add more names in the Electric aircraft section :

"-the E-FENIX, the first 100% electric two-seater paramotor ;

-the MC30E Luciole, in which the pilot Jean-Louis Soullier set a speed record of 189.87 km/h ;

-the ElectroLight 2, an electric motorglider ;

-the E-SPIDER, the first two-seater electric paramotor with foot-launch. It was presented at the Mondial of Paramotors in Basse-Ham in 2012."

Thanks !!! - Marieferey (talk) 11:24, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

References

Okay, let me have a look at each one of those in turn. The organization of the article is odd compared to how we normally do manufacturer's articles, so I think it all needs a re-org to make all the aircraft part of "History" in chronological order and allow at least the possibility of individual aircraft type articles to be written. - Ahunt (talk) 18:04, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Reorganization is  Fixed, next is the info you wanted included above. - Ahunt (talk) 00:02, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done - Ahunt (talk) 00:23, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Number of employees & photo

Hello ! Is it possible to add the number of employees in the summary box ? : "Staff : 40"

Also, would it be possible to add a new photo?

E-Props inflight variable pitch propeller Glorieuse

Here is the caption: "E-Props inflight variable pitch propeller Glorieuse"

Thanks !

Marieferey (talk) 08:44, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

References

Thanks for the employee number and the ref, I have added that. The article doesn't have any room for any more images right now, I have now cut one to avoid interfering with the refs section. I can't see any reason, either, to have photos of more than one propeller in the article. All props look somewhat alike and we want to avoid it looking liked sales catalogue. You can also note that the proposed photo is a circular format in a rectangular photo. We really try to avoid those sorts of photos, too, as they look like they came from a sales website and don't fit an encyclopedia article. - Ahunt (talk) 14:37, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks ! I understand. If you agree, we could remove the picture of the propeller on a blue background with the caption "E-Props model Vorpaline propeller for ultralights", as this propeller model is not produced by Electravia since 2015. Here is another photo in a different format that looks less like it cames from a sales website.

E-Props inflight variable pitch propeller Glorieuse

Marieferey (talk) 09:15, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks,  Done - Ahunt (talk) 12:54, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

False information

Hello,

There is false information on this page : "Usage is restricted to visual flight rule conditions, bad weather flying is not allowed by the manufacturer". The source document is no longer current. It has been replaced by another document in which this notion is no longer indicated.

Could you please change that ?

Marieferey (talk) 12:30, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

References

Thanks for your post here. You can note that there is a difference between "out-of-date" or "superseded" information and "false information". In this case it seems unlikely that the manufacturer published "false information" in the user manual. Regardless, I have updated the article to indicate the previous published limitations are out of date and the new advice the manual now includes, in its place. - Ahunt (talk) 12:59, 3 March 2022 (UTC)