Talk:Eastern Orthodoxy in Albania

Entry in need of general revision & clean-up

The current version of this entry is mostly the work of a single author: FabioAbazaj (talk · contribs). There were serious problems with the three references I could check (other two are in Albanian and Greek):

• The text misrepresented an acceptable source (diff.).
• The text misrepresented an unreliable source (diff.).
• The source didn't even deal with the issues it was supposed to support (diff.).

These blatant failures to comply with our verifiability and no original research policies makes me doubious of the entire content of this entry (mostly unreferenced). A general revision & clean-up is needed. - Regards, Ev (talk) 17:17, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

More of the same. I reviewed only three sources, but the three were bogus:

• The source didn't even deal with the issues it was supposed to support (diff.).
• The text misrepresented an unreliable source (diff.).
• The source didn't even deal with the issues it was supposed to support (diff.).

Best, Ev (talk) 18:44, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Eastern Orthodoxy in Albania/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

==Welcome== Welcome to the comment page of the article Orthodoxy in Albania. You can all leave your comments here, and suggest anything you think it's necessary in order to make Wikipedia's article better..

Last edited at 17:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 01:58, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

The removal of the redirect

Resnjari & SilentResident - this article is in our review que, and I see that the redirect was removed but I do not see any justification for its removal. After reviewing Orthodox_Autocephalous_Church_of_Albania, it appears to me the information in this article is verbatim. What has changed, other than the addition of "Islam" in the lead, that warrants removal of the redirect? See the following copy results [1]. I'm of the mind that you should probably revert the redirect. ^{Atsme📞📧} 15:35, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Atsme, see talkpage of Orthodox_Autocephalous_Church_of_Albania. Some editors expressed that the info i placed in the article did not belong and that it should relate to the institution itself (the lead up to it and eventual creation) not on the history in a generic sense of Orthodoxy as a whole in Albania prior to that. I added the content because i thought that the page served as a dual purpose due to the redirect also having the name Orthodoxy in Albania. My preference was to have it all in one article as it can fit it but many others differed. There was a view for splitting so i went with that instead. Either way was good for me.Resnjari (talk) 15:42, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Thing is, there is alot of content about the Orthodox Christianity (religion) that can not be added to the article which is about the Orthodox Church (religious institution). For this reason, the Orthodoxy in Albania has its redirect removed so it could host all the information on the religion that is unrelated and WP:OFFTOPIC for the article Orthodox Autocephalous Church of Albania which is about the institution.

This solution has a precedent in Wikipedia: For example the Orthodoxy in Greece which is separate from the Greek Orthodox Church, or the Orthodoxy in Bulgaria which is separate from the Orthodox Church of Bulgaria. Due to the nature of the topics tackled, the one about faith and the other about the institutions, this was necessary to avoid further complications and problems.

As for the Copy text, indeed the two articles at this moment, share copied content, but this will change, as the transfer of information from the one to the other has not been finalized yet. The issue has came to my attention already, hence I proposed the moving of the content from the one article to the other, where it is more relevant: [2]. This will help the two articles be more compact. --SILENTRESIDENT 15:56, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Resnjari and SilentResident thank you for your explanations. In reviewing the edit history for this article:

• (cur | prev) 08:52, April 30, 2017‎ Resnjari (talk | contribs)‎ . . (84,146 bytes) (+9)‎ . . (rollback: 2 edits | undo | thank)
• (cur | prev) 08:52, April 30, 2017‎ Resnjari (talk | contribs)‎ . . (84,137 bytes) (+84,137)‎ . . (undo | thank)

I'm not seeing where anything other than one word was added after the reverted redirect. Since the only difference between the two articles that I can see at this point are the name, and the fact that 98.5% of this article is already included in Orthodox Autocephalous Church of Albania. I recommend copying what you need for a new article, paste it in your Sandbox as a draft, and when you have completed the editing, you can create a new article. I'll let you self-revert the redirect so this article can be removed from the NPP feed until it's actually ready to be reviewed as a new article. ^{Atsme📞📧} 16:25, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Atsme, let them work it out how they want it structured first in the talkpage, otherwise its going to be mess and duplications of tasks. There is only one of me and barely any others on the English Albanian wikiproject to fill shoes, and at times in the end somehow the thing falls on me to do. There is time anyway. Best.Resnjari (talk) 16:31, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

We have two articles with identical content: 1. this one about the Orthodox faith in general 2. the OACA: the official religious administration that was established at 1920s. It's obvious that all info after 1920s is identical for both articles. I can only suggest the one article to be focused on historical aspects the other one to the OACA, i.e. developments from 1920s.Alexikoua (talk) 08:33, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Agree. I already moved the sections irrelevant to each other, from one article to the other. Let me know if there is still a problem. --SILENTRESIDENT 07:12, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

SilentResident, I have been looking at other Orthodoxy pages and separate ones on their Churches. Do you want this to be a bones dry kid of article in the end dealing with only the technical stuff of the church, i.e Dioceses, clergy (the bishops), statutes kind of stuff. And the history stuff gets transferred as well or mostly removed (transferred of what so far is not there, leaving only a sentence on when the church was created (1923), its autocephaly acknowledged (1937), one or more sentences on the communist era -and having a disclaimer saying, see Orthodoxy in Albania for history or something like that). Otherwise there still will be duplication on the modern era.Resnjari (talk) 09:54, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Resnjari, the other Orthodox pages are very underdeveloped, and when I say underdeveloped, I mean how little content has been added to them over the course of years, which is unfortunate, given how that does not reflect the history of Orthodoxy in these countries. And frankly, if you didn't try to submit all the new orthodox related content in Wikipedia, nowadays the Orthodoxy in Albania could too be very underdeveloped, as much as the other Orthodox articles; or even still be a mere redirect. This big difference has made me think adding a Stub tag to the other articles, because more content is needed for them.

As for the Church article, feel free to check the other Church articles and do the same on the AOAC; usually only a few minor sentences about how Orthodoxy came to Albania are really worth mentioning in AOAC; the rest can be moved to the OIA and that wont cause problems. --SILENTRESIDENT 11:48, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

SilentResident, i got stuff on the communist era that i want to add over the next few weeks. Ok, see how things go. Might be another transfer thing again. Best.Resnjari (talk) 11:51, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

My bad, I noticed now that while this article is simply called "Orthodoxy in Albania", the similar articles for other countries are actually abit differently titled: "Eastern Orthodoxy in Greece" and "Eastern Orthodoxy in Bulgaria", etc. In the light of this discovery, this article should be reverted back to a mere edirect, because, as per WP:TITLE, the proper article name is "Eastern Orthodoxy in Albania". I am going now to restore redirect for Orthodoxy in Albania (which will redirect to Eastern Orthodoxy in Albania instead). I deeply apologize for this inconvenience. All the content from the current article Orthodoxy in Albania will be moved to Eastern Orthodoxy in Albania. --SILENTRESIDENT 06:14, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately due to technical reasons my move attempt was not successful and resorted to the cut-paste method of moving content from one existing article to another existing article. However thankfully due to User:Ymblanter's help, the move was completed properly this time. If there is something else that has to be done, please let me know. Have a good day. --SILENTRESIDENT 09:48, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

All good. Needs to put the stuff i have for the communist era over the next few weeks. Best.Resnjari (talk) 20:21, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

The communist period of Albania has not been covered enough, feel free to add anything you may find about that era. On my part I am adding a Stub tag on the Eastern Orthodoxy in Bulgaria article as it is way too underdeveloped. However, to correct my above comment: I was wrong to say that the Eastern Orthodoxy in Greece is underdeveloped. In fact is not in need for any stub tags, nor it needs expansion, just its content has been splitted and moved to sub-articles: Timeline of Orthodoxy in Greece (year X until year Y) I assume the splitting was done due to them exceeding the article size limits on the original article, if combined. --SILENTRESIDENT 08:52, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

The section on communism is very undeveloped, though there is info now, Ramet and especially Czekalski and so on for those who might want to add. In a few weeks time on my part as the Albanian nationalism stuff exhausted me.Resnjari (talk) 15:18, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Exterme Albanian Ultranationalist Themes

This page is filled with unverified extreme Albanian ultranationalist themes and is not reflective or related to the history of the Eastern Orthodoxy in western Balkans. Some minor revisions were made by me in efforts to make the article a bit more reflective with the history of Eastern Orthodoxy in western Balkans. What today in the 21st is known as Albania was heavy influenced by the Ottoman Empire and sources are scare regarding the Christian faith in those areas. Regarding the 20th century, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that christians both Catholic and Orthodox were persecuted and punished more than muslims during the Communist period. Despite the fact that the christian population in Albania was somewhere between 25-30% during the communist period, taking into account both Catholics and Orthodox, the number of pastors executed and imprisoned was around 500% higher among christians than muslims. After the fall of communism, officially in 1992, the muslim majority governments of Albania despite claiming to garantee religious freedoms, have constantly imposed conditions on Eastern Orthodox church by demanding that the head of the Orthodox Church not to be Greek or especially Serb. Please help improve this page! RevivedCicero (talk) 01:59, 9 July 2023 (UTC)