Talk:Daniel Barenboim/Archive 1

Archive 1

overuse of [[]]

Would someone pls explain to me what the point is of surrounding every proper noun or date or numeral with [[]], and what Wikipedia policy on this is?

Seems to me it's overkill, as recently applied in this article and elsewhere: usual editing practice, for this sort of thing, is to show diacriticals in the first instance but then omit them in following -- ditto spelling out abbreviations -- including them for everything makes the article unreadable, IMHO.

--Kessler 22:00, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Father's name

His parents were Russian Jews, yet his father's name is given as "Enrique". This is a common name in Spanish speaking countries, but the Russian equivalent "Genrikh" is a very unusual name in Russia. Was there a name change somewhere along the way? JackofOz 12:25, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Barenboim, du Pré and Bashkirova

In this article, it reads:

In the last years of du Pre's life, Barenboim secretly set up home in Paris with pianist Elena Bashkirova, and fathered two children by her.

In the article about du Pré, however, the word "secretly" is not used; on the contrary, it is mentioned that the new relationship was set up "with his wife's consent".

Could someone with more knowledge please clear this conflict? -- SirWoland 17:36, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Is it really necessary to include all of this very private stuff in the article? I'd prefer that it just be left out: irrelevant to the guy's career, for which he's known, and makes the article sound trashy -- Wikipedia becomes People Magazine... So what if it was "in a movie"?

--Kessler 20:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Sort of along the same lines, "Du Pré developed advanced multiple sclerosis, and in the early 1980s Barenboim lived with pianist Elena Bashkirova and fathered two children (David and Michael) with Bashkirova before his wife's death." makes it sounds like there's a cause effect relationship between developing MS and getting married :)

oktay 01:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

POV/Verifiability Problems

The newly added section on "His Music" suffered from serious WP:NPOV and Wikipedia:Verifiability problems. I've tried to fix most of the POV, but a lot of the new material is not backed up with citations. Grover cleveland 08:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

The POV problems that were removed were the result of a contributor inserting what appear to be his or her own opinions into the article. Here's an example

As for his interpretation, he tends not to impose a rather far-reaching personal interpretation when playing.

Inasmuch as this sentence means anything at all, it is clearly a value judgment, not a statement of undisputed fact. Therefore it should be reported by attributing that opinion to a critic or other observer and including Verifiable citation information. For example:

critic X has claimed that Barenboim tends not to impose a personal interpretation when playing (see New York Times, Arts section, 2 March 2001, p. 25).

Such value judgments should not be baldly asserted by Wikipedia. See WP:NPOV: "assert facts, including facts about opinions — but do not assert opinions themselves". Grover cleveland 09:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Damage

Some damage has been done to this page by a red-linked user. I have attempted repair, but there is a duplicate Awards section after the references that I don't know how to get rid of: anyway, it is doing no harm. Rothorpe 22:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Israeli?

He was born in Argentina and has argentinian nationality...

I am watching an interview with Barenboim as we speak and he just mentioned that he went to school in Israel because his parents didn't want him to live as a "minority" in Argentina. I guess that means he considers himself Israeli.

He means *his parents* considered themselves Israeli. Being one of the very few Israeli-Palestinian dual citizen, I guess he's not so uncomfortable with being part of a minority. User:Cerniagigante

oktay 01:36, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Why don't we say "Argentine-Israeli"? I've seen that on several other websites...That might cover both fields, no? --~~MusicalConnoisseur~~ Got Classical? 21:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

He has Argentinian, Israeli and Spanish nationality, on top of the "Palestinian" passport. Thanks

Photograph

I'm wondering if a better, free-license photograph is available. It really doesn't show much of his face...or is that too petty? --~~MusicalConnoisseur~~ Got Classical? 21:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Polyglot

This was removed after the last edit to revert POV (by the way I'm fine with the edit):

“ Baremboim is a consummate polyglot, with a solid command of the Spanish, English, French, German, and Hebrew languages. ”

This alone seems to be NPOV, or at the very most only a little POV; should this be added back in? I don't see a problem with it (although it should probably be referenced). —  $PЯINGεrαgђ  04:40 3 July, 2008 (UTC)

I don't see a NPOV problem with this edit either. Probably the adjective "consummate" is unnecessary and could be considered to be non Neutral Point of View. It should be referenced though; I think this shouldn't be too difficult.--Atavi (talk) 07:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I worded it carefully, since I otherwise might have put it too POV. —  $PЯINGεrαgђ  04:47 4 July, 2008 (UTC)

Conductor at the 2006 New Year's Eve Concert

Hi All,
I've included just a brief reference to this fact, with a link to an article in the argentinian newspaper "Clarín". I'll provide more information about this performance once I get back my copy of the DVD about this concert. Which, by the way, I enjoyed very much!
Kind regards, DPdH (talk) 06:10, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Palestinian citizenship?

The beginning of the article contains the following sentence"

"He lives in Berlin and holds citizenship in Argentina, Israel, Spain and Palestine."

I don't see how that's possible since Palestine isn't a country anymore. Tad Lincoln (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 06:43, 23 January 2009 (UTC).

I found a rather descriptive reference to the controversy over Daniel Barenboim's citizenship.

Israeli pianist Barenboim takes Palestinian passport
Reuters via Ynet
Tani Goldstein contributed to this report
First Published: 01.13.08
Latest Update: 01.14.08
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3493612,00.html
Despite strong objections from Israeli politicians to Israeli pianist Daniel Barenboim's act of accepting a Palestinian passport, Interior Minister Meir Sheetrit has no plans to annul his Israeli citizenship. Shas faction chairman, MK Yakov Margi, was quick to denounce Barenboim and call for his status as an Israeli citizen to be annulled. "It's an embarrassment to the State that a person like this has Israeli citizenship...I am sure that in the eyes of Israeli citizens, he has lost the moral authority to be Israeli." Interior Minister Sheetrit told Ynet that "the matter is not even up for discussion." PinkWorld (talk) 14:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)Pink

Wow, um, that doesn't answer my question at all. What I was saying was that Palestine is not a country. So he has been granted citizenship by the Palestinian Authority, not by Palestine. It doesn't really matter anyway, as I changed it a while back to reflect this. Tad Lincoln (talk) 20:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Accuracy?

"Wagner's music had been unofficially tabooed in Israel's concert halls after 1938 because of the use Nazi Germany made of Wagner

Since Israel has only existed since 1948 how could there be such a taboo in Israeli concert halls in 1938? The area was the British Mandate for Palestine in 1938. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.13.26.91 (talk) 10:40, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Infobox

Absent consensus disagreement, I'll add an infobox, in accordance with bios on the rest of the Project.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:36, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Knighthood

Barenboim was knighted, true but can I raise a couple of points? Firstly this was an Honoury knighthood due to the non british citizenship and therefor it should mention this as there is a difference. Also the ref needs reformatting in relation to this as it is at risk of possible link rot in the future see Wikipedia:Link rot Cassianto (talk) 02:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC) Unless Barenboim himself does so, I don't care for the affixing of "KBE" to his name. It seems to elevate the authority of the British govt over others. An American who'd received the presidential medal of freedom wouldn't known as John Doe PMF.

File:DB2Barenboim.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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File:DB1Barenboim.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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“This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.”

Of course, this is a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. Otherwise, it has no reason for existing. This page has two names: the “talk page” and the “discussion page.” It is not called the “censorship page” or the “inhibitions page.” Whenever someone puts up that phony order, it means that he has a POV that he is pushing, which he is hiding behind his feigned objectivity. At Wikipedia, many such someones push their POVs with great obnoxiousness. Ignore such POV-pushers, and carry on with your general discussion. 24.90.188.108 (talk) 00:18, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

COI?

Why does this article have a COI template? Alexbrn (talk) 08:05, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

The template was added by Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk · contribs · logs) in May 2012, most likely to flag the biography section which was then recently expanded a lot by Bernie44 (talk · contribs · logs). The section is well sourced now, So I'm removing the tag. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 01:03, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

EARLY ACHEIVEMENTS

I have early memory of Barenboim travelling to Russia in 1950's to perform as a young pianist and win Tchaikovsky (Prize?). Could anyone remember this and provide factual details? Laletin (talk) 22:57, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure you are not confusing him with Van Cliburn, who famously won the Tchaikovsky prize at the height of the Cold War? Partnerfrance (talk) 16:46, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Harpsichord Resonance

In the "Musical Style" section, this article states that harpsichords are highly resonant: "In Barenboim's recording of The Well-Tempered Clavier, he makes frequent use of the right-foot sustaining pedal, a device absent from the keyboard instruments of Bach's time (although the harpsichord was highly resonant)"

While harpsichords do not have dampers, this is because they have a famously rapid decay, which motivated performers at the time to roll chords to increase the length of notes. They were certainly not highly resonant. 173.74.185.90 (talk) 14:47, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Daniel Barenboim

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Daniel Barenboim's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Independent":

• From Solomon R. Guggenheim Foundation: Cornwell, Rupert (July 10, 2006). "Abu Dhabi named as home of Gehry's new Guggenheim". The Independent. London. Retrieved October 1, 2008.
• From Ian McEwan: Walsh, John (27 January 2007). "Ian McEwan: Here's the twist". The Independent. London. Retrieved 22 March 2007.
• From Patrice Chéreau: Kirkup, James (9 October 2013). "Patrice Chéreau: Film, theatre and opera director hailed for his Bayreuth Ring Cycle and for La Reine Margot". The Independent. London. Retrieved 11 October 2013.
• From Jacqueline du Pré: Ian Phillips (28 May 1999). "Classical: Defending the real Jackie". The Independent. Retrieved 15 June 2012.
• From Adrian Beers: Slatford, Rodney (24 June 2004). "Obituary: Double-bass player and teacher who began his career in the Glasgow music halls". The Independent. UK. Retrieved 14 December 2009.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 11:47, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

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Peter Kirchner (figure in photo 4)

An editor on 2 August 2016 questioned the identity of the left-hand figure on photo 4 as Peter Kirchner. To clarify, Peter Kirchner was the chair of East Berlin's Jewish Community from 1971 to 1990 (Mike Dennis & Norman LaPorte, _States and Minorities in Communist East Germany_ (New York: Berghahn, 2011), p. 38). While there is no English-language entry for him in Wikipedia, there is one in German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kirchner Callastian (talk) 22:12, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

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Conducting debut

This sentence:

"Barenboim made his conducting debut on 28 November 2008 at the Metropolitan Opera in New York for the House's 450th performance of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde ."

is inconstent with this one:

"Following his debut as a conductor with the English Chamber Orchestra in Abbey Road Studios, London, in 1966..."

I would presume the latter correctly describes his conducting debut. Can someone verify and delete the former sentence please? Mike Spathaky (talk) 19:32, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

I see the first has been changed to "opera conducting debut." Thanks whoever. Mike Spathaky (talk) 10:44, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

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Issue

Someone familiar with the facts needs to replace words like "now" and "recently" so they won't soon become obsolete. -- zero 14:39, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Palestinian citizenship?

In the section "Citizenship" is mentioned the Palestinian citizenship.

"Some countries, including the United States, recognize Palestinian Authority passports as travel documents, though the recognition of the passports does not imply recognition by them of citizenship, since they are not issued by a government which they recognize."

So we should write Palestinian passport instead. Grimes2 (talk) 17:02, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

So we should write Palestinian passport instead. No. if a nationality is not recognised, to a non-recognising country a document marked "Palestinian Passport" is not a passport (even if accepted in some places as a travel document) - the term is as meaningless as "Palestinian nationality". The best solution I can come up with is to create a footnote saying something like "The Palestinian Authority grants Palestinian nationality and passport, but this nationality is not universally recognised <ref>A reference supporting this</ref>" and inserting it whenever "Palestinian nationality" is mentioned.

Note that this is a common problem - a lot of countries, such as Taiwan/Republic of China are not universally recognised. A specific example is Israel - a significant minority of countries doe not recognise Israel, Israeli nationality, Israeli passport. Best wisges, Pol098 (talk) 12:44, 11 January 2022 (UTC)