Talk:Claude W. Kinder

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The inclusion of a Claude W. Kinder C.M.G. on Wikipedia page is justified as he was a notable person and famous in his time in China . He was a senior (Honorary) Chinese official who was builder and head of Imperial Railways of North China for almost 30 years. He rates as an equivalent of Imperial Chinese Customs Commissioner Sir Robert Hart

Kinder built China's first significant railway and was the mentor and instructor of Chinese railway engineer Jeme Tien Yow who has his own Wikipedia page. Kinder even has a statue at Beidaihe in China and a new museum, now under construction to commemorate 130 years of coal mining in Tangshan will give Kinder proper recognition for his place in Chinese history.

Addional references to Kinder can be found in these web sites:

www.yale.edu/cusy/cusyersinhis.htm A British engineer Claude W. Kinder was hired as the chief engineer of the railroad. ... Kinder was the original candidate for the chief engineer position, ...www.yale.edu/cusy/cusyersinhis.htm - Cached

Jeme Tien Yow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jeme Tien Yow (Chinese: 詹天佑; pinyin: Zhān Tiānyòu; previously romanized as Jeme Tien Yow) (26 April 1861 – 24 April 1919) was a distinguished Chinese railroad engineer. He was educated in the United States of America and was the Chief Engineer responsible for... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeme_Tien_Yow - Cached

Hong Kong Railway Society ... and English civil engineer Claude W. Kinder was given responsibility for its ... Kinder insisted on building the tramway to 4ft 8½ in. ...www.hkrs.org.hk/members/crush/kaiping/index.htm - Cached

Jeme Tien Yow Memorial Hall - Moonlightchest.com Jeme Tien Yow was a distinguished Chinese railroad engineer. ... A British engineer Claude W. Kinder was hired as the chief engineer of the railroad. ...memorial.moonlightchest.com/111/default.asp - Cached —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chinarail (talk • contribs) 09:00, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

And at these Chinese sites: http://amuseum.cdstm.cn/AMuseum/railway/tlsh/113943785.html http://baike.baidu.com/view/1063594.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chinarail (talk • contribs) 09:21, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok you have more than proved notability, now my advice is to get some of that into the article. Why not make it a target to edit this article to Good Article standard? Jenuk1985 | Talk 09:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

From Kaiping Tramway Article

This was an entire section from that article that essential does nothing but establish a biography for the guy. Moved here for inclusion in this article:

===Claude William Kinder 1852 - 1936 (Engineer-in-Chief) ===

It is interesting to note that Claude William Kinder does not receive very much mention in Chinese historic sources, perhaps because of China’s intense sensitivity to the part played by foreigners in China during this period. Kinder, however, played a crucial role in the early development of this first railway. He detested the power struggles and political squabbles between the numerous railway’s directors that he worked under but from the point of view of being a reliable and steady man at the helm on the ground, he got on with the job of building and operating the railway while his superiors jostled for power and “played musical chairs”. Kinder worked for the Chinese railway for 31 years as Engineer-in-Chief and also later General Manager of the progressively developing IRNC before resigning in May 1909 following a difference of opinion with a new Director-General.

Hu Yu-fen, with whom Kinder had in later years enjoyed a cordial relationship, died in 1906 and this led to the appointment in 1907 of a Yuan Shi Kai’s protégé, Liang Shi Yi as the head of a newly created Chief Railway Bureau. Liang in turn appointed independent directors for each of China’s different railway lines, which included the IRNC. Within months Kinder had huge differences of opinion with Liang and in particular over the engagement and dismissal of foreign engineers. Unable to reconcile these differences, Kinder submitted his resignation in October 1908 following the termination of three foreign engineers without Liang even consulting Kinder. Kinder left China on retirement in 1909 and never returned.

Kinder was appointed C.M.G. by the British in 1900 and in 1905 was created a “Mandarin of the Red Button” (Chinese Official Rank of the Second Class) for meritorious service by the Imperial Chinese Government. He was also awarded the “Order of the Double Dragon” (Shuang long bao xing 雙龍寶星s: 双龙宝星). In a display of growing local nationalism, Liang also snubbed Kinder’s recommendation for his Deputy Chief Engineer (Alex Cox) to be promoted as his replacement and chose instead Englishman A. Harvey Bellingham who was then Municipal Engineer for Tientsin. Bellingham, however, died suddenly before taking up the appointment, whereupon Liang leap-frogged a more junior engineer over the head of Cox, as a continuing snub to Kinder.

There was much public criticism in the foreign press about Kinder’s supposedly shabby treatment by Liang, and Kinder retired to England a bitter man having been given no customary “golden handshake” for thirty years service. He was also denied payment for some 18 months in unpaid leave pay accumulated over many years. He was eventually offered a compensatory position of engineering adviser, resident in England but declined the offer. He died in Churt, England on August 9, 1935. The railway that Kinder and Tong Kong Sing had started however continued to prosper and after the fall of the Imperial Qing dynasty in 1911, the railway formed part of “Chinese National Railways”.

Dead source links are available at the Kaiping Tramway article. — LlywelynII 04:23, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

References

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<ref>Burnett died on August 19, 1883 after contracting [[Typhoid fever]] after he was reassigned to a [[Yangtze River]] copper and iron mining project in 1882. [[Claude W. Kinder]] was appointed to take his place as Chief Engineer at Tangshan (ref: ICE Minutes of Proceedings vol 75 1883, Obituary of Robert Reginald Burnett)</ref> <ref>Kinder is also remembered in the [[Beidaihe District|Beidahe seaside resort]], and credited with building the first beach front cottage after discovering the area’s potential as a summer resort. (ref: Embassy of the Peoples Republic of China, India website: http://www.chinaembassy.org.in/eng/lxzd/bjzn/t173005.htm (retrieved 02.01.2009). There is also a new mining museum in Tangshan where Kinder is acknowledged as a respected pioneering engineer.</ref>

— LlywelynII 22:30, 13 October 2011 (UTC)