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"Guest appearances" edit
 | Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issue. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
The lengthy list of "Guest appearances" that is repeatedly added to this article is inappropriate. We do not list every single track that a musician has appeared on, even in a dedicated discography article, much less an artist biography. Check out recognized peer-reviewed articles such as DJ Kool Herc to see how this should be done. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 11:32, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- Actually, we do: Eminem_discography#Guest_appearances, Jay_Z_discography#Guest_appearances, Tupac_Shakur_discography#Guest_appearances, etc. Forty.4 (talk) 20:38, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- I'm happy to create Ceschi discography and move the list there. Forty.4 (talk) 20:42, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- I don't believe it should be included. It's fancruft and trivia. Beyond that it's not sourced. Having sources in different articles is not having sources - WP:CIR. The Dissident Aggressor 21:38, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- How is a list of his appearances on other people's albums 'trivia'? It's basic discographical information. And as you can see, it's standard content for rappers' discographies. Also, the sources in the album articles must be sufficient if the album listings themselves don't need to be sourced, which seems to be the case per other high quality articles: Bob_Dylan#Discography, Elvis_Presley#Discography, The_Beatles#Discography, etc. I could see a case for sourcing anything that doesn't have its own article, however. Forty.4 (talk) 22:07, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- I think we have consensus that it should not be included - with you being the lone standout. The Dissident Aggressor 00:35, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- Uh, what? You can't arbitrarily declare that something is unfit for inclusion when it's included everywhere else on far higher quality articles. So please cite some precedent or policy to support your argument. All you've done here is ignore my points and restate your unsubstantiated claim that the information is 'trivial' in your edit summary. Please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia:Consensus#Reaching_consensus_through_discussion. You have not achieved anything close to consensus here, and more importantly, you haven't even tried. - Forty.4 (talk) 03:28, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- I have restored some content with sources. The list of Ceschi's guest appearances, which I think is encyclopedic, should be included in this article. Alternatively, as Forty.4 said, Ceschi discography should be created. As far as I know, many, if not all, of the other artists' discography in the Wikipedia such as Ludacris discography, Sean Combs discography, and Kanye West discography include their guest appearances. 153.204.174.245 (talk) 04:13, 17 July 2015 (UTC) — 153.204.174.245 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Comparing this musician to Kanye West is a bit much - you know with those 21 Grammy Awards he has? I don't think we need a discography quite yet, nor do we need to list the 6th grade plays he participated in. The Dissident Aggressor 03:25, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- I have restored some content with sources. The list of Ceschi's guest appearances, which I think is encyclopedic, should be included in this article. Alternatively, as Forty.4 said, Ceschi discography should be created. As far as I know, many, if not all, of the other artists' discography in the Wikipedia such as Ludacris discography, Sean Combs discography, and Kanye West discography include their guest appearances. 153.204.174.245 (talk) 04:13, 17 July 2015 (UTC) — 153.204.174.245 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Uh, what? You can't arbitrarily declare that something is unfit for inclusion when it's included everywhere else on far higher quality articles. So please cite some precedent or policy to support your argument. All you've done here is ignore my points and restate your unsubstantiated claim that the information is 'trivial' in your edit summary. Please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia:Consensus#Reaching_consensus_through_discussion. You have not achieved anything close to consensus here, and more importantly, you haven't even tried. - Forty.4 (talk) 03:28, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- I think we have consensus that it should not be included - with you being the lone standout. The Dissident Aggressor 00:35, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- How is a list of his appearances on other people's albums 'trivia'? It's basic discographical information. And as you can see, it's standard content for rappers' discographies. Also, the sources in the album articles must be sufficient if the album listings themselves don't need to be sourced, which seems to be the case per other high quality articles: Bob_Dylan#Discography, Elvis_Presley#Discography, The_Beatles#Discography, etc. I could see a case for sourcing anything that doesn't have its own article, however. Forty.4 (talk) 22:07, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
- I don't believe it should be included. It's fancruft and trivia. Beyond that it's not sourced. Having sources in different articles is not having sources - WP:CIR. The Dissident Aggressor 21:38, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
What makes Bandcamp a reliable and independent source for a BLP? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 06:19, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- I have removed the unsourced items, and the items sourced only to Bandcamp, from the "Guest appearances" list in accordance with Wikipedia:BURDEN. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 08:47, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I have restored the content with sources. Admittedly, Bandcamp is not a third-party source. However, per WP:SELFPUB, WP:BLPSELFPUB, and WP:SELFSOURCE, we can use Bandcamp as a source for Ceschi's guest appearances in the Ceschi article. I'm pretty sure about it. But if you still think I'm wrong, please feel free to bring the case to WP:BLPN, WP:RSN, or WP:DRN. Even if the community decides Bandcamp cannot be used, I will say we can use the back cover and the liner notes of the record as a source. 153.173.169.145 (talk) 09:41, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- I have started a conversation at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Using Bandcamp for sources in musician BLPs - please take a look. My rule of thumb is any release that you can't cite in Billboard or Rolling Stone should be treated as suspicious. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:14, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I have restored the content with sources. Admittedly, Bandcamp is not a third-party source. However, per WP:SELFPUB, WP:BLPSELFPUB, and WP:SELFSOURCE, we can use Bandcamp as a source for Ceschi's guest appearances in the Ceschi article. I'm pretty sure about it. But if you still think I'm wrong, please feel free to bring the case to WP:BLPN, WP:RSN, or WP:DRN. Even if the community decides Bandcamp cannot be used, I will say we can use the back cover and the liner notes of the record as a source. 153.173.169.145 (talk) 09:41, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
"B-sides albums" edit
I'm wondering how "B-sides albums" could possibly be a valid sub-category for Ceshi's Forgotten Forever album, and I don't just mean because of the odd use of the plural case. Nowhere else have I read that this album consists of B-sides. I presume it does not mean that someone else is on the A-side of a split. Has this guy even had 15 B-sides issued? Under the Singles sub-category, you list only two Ceschi singles. One of them has a B-side of "Bad Jokes", which is not found on this album. In other artists' discographies, albums containing B-sides and rarities (such as Avril Lavigne's "B-Sides" album) are listed as compilations. But I see no evidence that this album is anything other than a rare studio album. Ramseyman (talk) 18:52, 24 December 2018 (UTC)