Talk:Celebration, Florida

Community Sub-Section

Celebration as a community is running out of locations for people to meet, thus a Civic Corridor is being developed. The Civic Corridor, which is soon to be under construction, has been pushed by the community and the church-body of Celebrate Church. There are those who completely remove the community category, remove any church organization, or edit the community section, who do not live in this town, nor do they have any involvement in this town. They have no right to commit any changes when they have no basis for there changes, other than bigotry. Below is a excerpt from the page on Community.

Western cultures are thus said to be losing the spirit of community that once were found in institutions including churches and community centers. Sociologist Ray Oldenburg states in The Great Good Place that people need three places: 1) The home, 2) the office, and, 3) the community hangout or gathering place.

Proud to be serving the community of Celebration, Fl -- Meleniumshane90 —Preceding comment was added at 22:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

That's all well and good, but you don't need to list every church in town. Most other town articles don't have that. You also aren't supposed to advertise events if they aren't otherwise notable, and you are not supposed to make judgments about them, like the event was good or bad or what have you. --AW (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Really, but listing associations (which is done on countless other pages) is all well and good. Would this be different if it wasn't a church. May I direct people to religious intolerance. Saying an event had 2500 people show up on its debut, which is fact, is hardly making a judgment. Now, I do thank you for being the only one who actually read and post something here, rather than just removing all of the legitimate information here. Just to let everyone know, I work in the town, and my information is first hand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meleniumshane90 (talk • contribs)

Some of those community organizations govern the town while the churches don't. I'm sure that was a good event, but Wikipedia is not a place to advertise events. You also are not supposed to give value judgments on anything, such as "an unexpected but appreciated guest...", nor is the article a place for writing about the event "rain delayed the event...". Please see Wikipedia:Five pillars and the Wikipedia:Introduction page for more info on how to edit, and Wikipedia:Neutral Point of View. --AW (talk) 20:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Everyone misses the point that I live and work in the town, and have a completely neutral point of view on the subject matter. I have been the subject of immediate disapproval by people who do not live anywhere near Celebration, let alone Florida! This is a distinguishable page, why continue going back to the page and completely delete any religious aspect of the community? Once again, I direct anyone who doesn't belive there is an association between communities and churches, then read the article (from above) on this link Community.--Meleniumshane90 (talk) 02:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Accusation (irrelevant to talk of community)

Oh, and the best person on here, besides the random IP attacks, is Mhking has actually went as far as to continue to modify my PERSONAL page and spam it unmercifully. --Meleniumshane90 (talk) 02:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Please do not make untrue charges regarding my edits. My edits to your talk page have been to restore warning templates as governed by Wikipedia policy. In addition, my edits regarding the removal of spam links here are governed specifically by Wikipedia: External Links in keeping with Wikipedia's Policy. Your false charges are unwarranted and unappreciated. --Mhking (talk) 02:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol;

"Users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages, though archiving is preferred. They may also remove some content in archiving. The removal of a warning is taken as evidence that the warning has been read by the user. This specifically includes both registered and anonymous users."

Apparently some people don't read Wikipedia's actual policies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.227.93.125 (talk) 23:18, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

CC&Rs

I removed some language which I thought sensationalist about the CC&Rs (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions) associated with Celebration, as I don't think it's at all material to Celebration.

Comparison of Census/American Community Survey numbers on housing construction and these estimates of [community association governed housing] show that a consistent 30-50% of new houses built since the 1970s have community associations attached, with a total population today of nearly 55 million Americans. Many subdivisions without community associations still have CC&Rs, but in the absence of an HOA there is no enforcement authority. Attached housing is rarely fee-simple, and accounts for nearly half of housing starts in America; single family houses in planned communities with common areas (e.g., recreational amenities or private streets) account for additional millions of new CC&R-governed houses. Some surveys relate that 80% of residents of these communities have never read their CC&Rs.

Homeowners' associations are indeed ubiquitous in many of the nation's fastest-growing cities, particularly in the Sunbelt and even more in Florida and California. A search of new homes for sale in Kissimmee County in the Orlando Sentinel shows that every single one is in a planned community.

Pretty much any development built in the Sunbelt since the 1980s has restricted house colors, and almost all urban historic districts (like the one I live in) do the same. This has NOTHING to do with the architectural style, or with New Urbanism, or even with Celebration: Modernist high-rise condos in New York City and schlocky golf-course retirement villas in Phoenix alike come with a thick book of CC&Rs, regulating everything from curtain colors and the age of permanent residents to the the number and type of dogs permissible and the placement of outdoor grills or signs. Some CC&Rs, notably the racially restrictive covenants that ensured segregation in the urban North and West, have been ruled unconstitutional by federal courts, but otherwise they are a legal part of everyday American life. --Paytonc 01:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

There is quite a difference in saying that CC&R's are "ubiquitous in all suburban development" and saying that they are common in subdivisions with areas held in common or in urban historic districts. A large number of suburban developments have neither common areas nor "thick book of CC&Rs". Where is your 95% figure from? Of the six home sales I've been involved in here, all in suburban subdivisions developed since 1910, exactly zero have had restrictive design covenents. Perhaps you are confusing CC&R's with municipal zoning authority? While it may be considered "inflammatory" to say that buyers "must sign" these restrictions, it is patently factual while your arguments for removing the language are unreferenced and, from my experience, spurious. If I'm just completely out of touch, at least have the courtesy to reference an authoritative source. --Dystopos 00:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, the 95% was made up. Perhaps I've just always lived in cities where HOAs are indeed ubiquitous -- Raleigh, LA, Boston, and Chicago, where most new housing is built either in planned communities or is in condominium form. Re-read the edited comment, please, and the edited article: all of that is factually correct, and puts Celebration into better perspective. I still do not think that this is at all material to Celebration: the new home construction market in places like Orlando is dominated by golf-course planned communities like Celebration, complete with CC&Rs that regulate house paint, yet critics want to pin Disney or New Urbanism as being the root of these. (For what it's worth, most Florida zoning laws demand that stormwater retention ponds be maintained by HOAs, not by municipalities.) Also, I am not confused about zoning vs. CC&Rs; I'm an urban planning researcher. Oh, and what's this "authoritative source" you mention? --Paytonc 01:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much anything published and verifiable... not "made up" would be authoritative enough. In the end, our goal is to put Celebration into a factual and neutral perspective, not a better or worse one. I am not of the "Blame Disney and the CNU for everything bad" camp. I took more exception to the claim in your edit summary than to the content of the article. We're probably more on the same page than it seems. Let's just agree to be fair to the subject. --Dystopos 01:50, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

---

In perusing this article, I see no criticism at all, which seems odd. While I don't have the articles at my fingertips at present, I know that I have seen articles on the overwhelming nature of Celebration's CR&Rs, noting that they are more all-inclusive and strict that the average CC&R. The article as is sounds like it was written by a Disney PR man (or woman). --RockStarSheister (talk) 00:58, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

---

A point worth making but I have not come up with a netural way of reporting it (yet). I have lived in planned communities and currently live in Celebration. The CROA/HOA rule book for Celebration is 2 thick binders work of paper, or an entire CD. This is extremely different than other communities where it is usually 100 pages or less, and demonstrates the level of control inacted (originally by Disney) over the exterior of the community. The unusual difference of the HOA environment at Celebration is worthy of mention. --KeithBarrett (talk) 15:51, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Added Images

I visited on a partly cloudy day, so the images aren't the best, but I hope these help illustrate the city a little. I wish I'd taken more of the wide variety of home styles (not just designs) in the city. --Bobak 00:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Those are great photos! Winter light can be quite a challenge. --Paytonc 19:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC) (edited Paytonc 01:26, 9 March 2006 (UTC))

Opening Paragraph

I modified the opening paragraph to be more accurate and narative.

Disney Cast members do not receive discounts in Celebration restaurants because there is any relationship between the town and the company. It is for the same reasons they get them at the nearby Red Lobster, Chevy's, Ale House, Cold Stone, IHOP, etc. They are arrangements from the business who wants to encourage the large number of employees to patronage their location. Having worked for Disney and lived in Celebration I can state this is easily verifyable by asking the restaurant managers. Also none of the restaurants are operated by Disney. Celebration residents do (or did) get a discount at the area Chick-Fil-A once a week, and at the golf course restaurant.

I do not believe Disney is on the CROA at all now that the population has reached over 9000, but since I have not verified that I did not add that to the edit. Celebration is however now considering a proposal to incorporate.

Other information that perhaps should get mentioned (but didn't)...

With the Florida housing boom, there has been a large conversion of rental/appartment facilities in Celebration into condos. Businesses bought up all the original rental facilities, including Mirasol, Gables North, and the downtown complexes, and resold them as condos. Rentals still exist, but because there are individual owners renting their unit out or garage apartments.

They have also started to build multi-story condos on land originally designated as parking or unintended for building. This has created a large parking shortage in downtown, especially during events like the pie festival. It has also changed the look of the downtown area. The lack of parking also creates a hardship for tourists visiting the area shops and restaurants, and since several shops cater to tourists more than residents, this will eventually have a visible impact.

—Preceding unsigned comments added by Kgbarrett (talk • contribs)

History Section

Why is there absolutely no history provided re: the creation, development/planning, and intent of the community? Or why Disney has largely pulled out of it? Everything anybody would go to an encyclopedia article to learn about is conspicuously missing! --ChrisStansfield 19:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I was going to ask the same? how was the city formed? by whom? when? with what motivation? I don't have a clue. --BBird 21:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

The Celebration Chronicles and Celebration, U.S.A. go rather in-depth on its history until the start of the century, so I'll probably check those out at the library and add information about it within the upcoming weeks. While I am at it, I will probably clean up the article; it's too listy and, as stated above, is not structured like a traditional city article. --Slof 06:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Some of the history was there but has been pulled out (by others). That data could fill a book itself (and has). I think the reason there hasn't been a big effort to keep it is because it is all documented in 1 or 2 books about the town and we would just be re-creating the content here. Some of it should really be here though - the disputes with the school system, the lottery, the Zeus computer, the changing hands of Max's cafe', the removal of Disney from the water tower, the failure of Goodings. It's all interesting to read and well documented. --KeithBarrett (talk) 15:57, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Transportation Sub-Section

Does any public transportation operating in or around Celebration? --Simon Bar Sinister 02:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Lynx has a bus stop near the Hospital. Other than that there is no public transportation. There were a few attempts, including a nice trolly, but they did not commercially succeed. I always wished there was a simple, 2x a day shuttle that stopped at each village, downtown, the hospital, and the water tower plaze. --KeithBarrett (talk) 08:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Celebration is connected to the WDW property. Is there any chance Disney could extend one of its shuttle buses into town? That should be enough to get people out to one of the major transit centers.

Why haven't they considered extending the monorail?173.60.95.232 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:35, 17 August 2011 (UTC).

External links

The excess external links are considered spam links (per Wikipedia: External Links). Please do not continue to add them. --Mhking (talk) 03:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

The external link was NOT the official web site for the town. It was a corporate promotional site supplying data about the town to gain traffic. While less elegant in content, I have replaced it with the real, official web site operated by the Town Hall and CROA. --KeithBarrett (talk) 07:57, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Census Update

A census from 2000 is just plain lazy... especially because there are well documented sites about Celebration. With a population of over 4000 as of December 23rd, 2008 why is it still this way? And why is the page locked from adjustments? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.130.194.30 (talk) 02:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

(New comments go at the bottom of the page - I've moved it down). I reverted your change, since "4000" is clearly an estimate and not an actual count. The figure from the last census is just fine -- unless the Census Bureau has an updated figure, or you have a locally generated number with a reference behind it. --Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 03:24, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

In Popular Culture Section

I'm not sure there are enough examples to warrant a "In Popular Culture" section but it should be noted that UK band Chumbawamba, known most famously for their song Tubthumper, wrote a song about Celebration, Florida entitled "Celebration Florida" on their album WYSIWYG. The liner notes for the album have a couple paragraphs of commentary regarding the town, starting with the phrase "From the people that brought you Mai Li". It's a bit much to copy here but in any case, perhaps this should be mentioned in this article at some point. --VarunRajendran (talk) 12:27, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

(See comment above about new comments going at the bottom of the page. I just moved yours down as well!) --bluegreen (talk) 23:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

There's also the other album listed at the top of the article, a satirical mention in the musical Avenue Q's song "Special," and a piece in Studio 360's "American Icons: The Disney Parks." Calbaer (talk) 23:28, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

In the US version of The Office in the episode "Crime Aid", Andy Bernard tells his then-fiancee Angela Martin that he intends for them to move to Celebration in order to escape Scranton's non-existent crime wave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:346:C201:60C0:B936:F040:E628:BE9C (talk) 16:50, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Villages Sub-Section

This is a quotation from Villages:

Mirasol includes condos with concierge service and a day spa.

What is Mirasol? --bluegreen (talk) 23:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Recent Homicide and Subsequent News Coverage

The information in the following article could address some of the concerns addressed above about a lack of information with regards to the town's history: Town that Disney built has first homicide. The murder or lack-thereof could also be mentioned on the page with this site as a reference. --bluegreen (talk) 23:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Sentences "However, based on the relatively small size of the community, the per capita historical murder rate is among the highest in the country. In fact, for the week beginning Sunday, November 28, 2010, Celebration had the highest weekly per capita rate of violent crime in the entire United States.[17]." are based on a broken link. It's also too early to call, isn't it, since the week of November 28 isn't over yet? Brian Hart (talk) 04:25, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

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