Talk:Burmese dialects

Spread of Burmese speakers in Lower Burma

Hi Hintha, I reverted back some of the changes. I really meant the "spread", not just settlement. The growth of Burmese in the south wasn't just due to immigration of Burmese speakers. It was also because of the assimilation (certainly encouraged, possibly forced?) of Mon speakers, and of course, intermarriage. People began identifying themselves as Burman and began speaking Burmese. This process of Burmanization has been going on (at varying rates throughout the years) since the Pagan era. Hybernator (talk) 04:26, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

No worries, thanks for expanding the article. I just wanted to emphasize that the resettlement of Burmans was also a major factor, because I just recently wrote a paper on the history of rice production in Burma and several sources (both Burmese and Western) state that this migration was largely induced by British policies (draining and reclaiming wetlands, tax breaks/incentives, etc.), which led to one of the largest historical migrations in such a short period of time. Many pockets of Lower Burma before were uninhabited before the British takeover. I also want to make the case that the looser structure of Lower Burmese (with regard to family terms, etc.) is also the result of the lack of social rigidity and establishment found in Upper Burma, similar to Americans settling the Western frontier or Vietnamese settling the Mekong Delta, but I still have to find the sources to back this claim, unless you could help me! --Hintha (talk) 06:24, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Burman settlement was a main reason but the sole reason. The Mon people who put up a good fight for centuries couldn't have been overwhelmed by that migration alone. The Burmans unlike the Han Chinese did not have the numbers to overwhelm a region as large as Lower Burma. The migration of Burmese speakers combined with the switch in self-identification of former Mon speakers paved way for the supremacy of Burmese in Lower Burma. (Thant Myint U's Making of Modern Burma was a good one on the topic.)

Less rigid social structures no doubt had an impact on family terms. Colonial historian GE Harvey, who was probably the most anti-Burmese of all historians and one who came of age during the height of British Empire, made a similar observation that families in Upper Burma unlike those in Lower Burma, knew their lineage. I quote: "...the old established villages of Upper Burma are not like the newly cleared Delta areas where society is positively colonial and men do not know their own pedigree." (Harvey, History of Burma, Chapter: Alaungpaya Dynasty, page 219, 1925 edition). But it alone can't be the explanation. The native tongues of the region must have had an impact on Burmese too. I'd research on whether the Mon also had sex-based differentiation in family terms or simply used unisex terms. Hybernator (talk) 14:01, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Split

Several of these dialect/language sections are large enough to have their own pages. -- Al™ 04:04, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. Especially the ones that have their own ISO 639-3 code should have their own articles, and be called languages rather than dialects of Burmese. Angr (talk) 22:23, 29 October 2012 (UTC)