Talk:Boogiepop

Age

Though I have seen Boogiepop Phantom advertized as being suitable for younger audiences, ages 13 and up, I have serious doubts of the ability of young audiences to follow it's confusing non-linear storyline. I am a college educated professional and somewhat closer to 40 years of age than 35 years of age, and I've had to watch it a couple of times through to figure it all out. Add to this the challenge of a large number of characters, with Japanese names, and time jumping, and I don't think many 13 year olds will sit past the first episode. GestaltG 18:17, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, so what do you think needs changing? I can't really see what you're getting at here other than that you disagree with the rating it's been given, which is fairly irrelevant, as the rating stands. --Eternal Trance 19:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

This article isn't just about the Boogiepop Phantom anime series, but rather the novels (14 as of 2006), live action film, and Manga/Graphic novels (2 so far). The Phantom anime series is actually rated 15+ and without watching it most the way through and/or reading the extra included DVD notes, a feature on the last two DVDs, or reading the first novel/manga/watching the live action movie you won't understand everything that is going on. Actually even if you read the novel/watch the movie there are still flashbacks to other novels, in particular Boogiepop at Dawn where the bloodied mantle of the Kuroda Shinpei /Scarecrow/Kishida Ichirou is found by Touka , which are not really focused in on the anime.

I found this for you http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/archives/boogiepop_never_cries.html it is a linear timeline of events in the movie and anime that should make it easier to understand. The only unexplained thing is the phantom Kishida Ichirou looks like Kuroda Shinpei but has Echo's memories.

Sekai System

Not sure how many people are going to read this, but cannot hurt to ask. The Japanese Wikipedia entry for this series claims that it was a significant influence on the 'sekai system', which is something I have never heard of before (as a pretty hardcore otaku, that is saying something). Reading the Japanese article on what this system is, it is anime where the protagonist does/can reshape their world (eg Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, Kono Minikuku mo Utsukushii Sekai), and apparently originated with Shinseiki Evangelion. This seems to be a genre classification we do not use in English, but if the series has had any kind of a noteworthy influence on the genre, it should be pointed out here. Does anyone know enough (anything?) about this topic to be able to include what kind of significance the Boogiepop series has had on it? Elric of Grans 00:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't sound so much like a genre as a theme. I'm trying to think of an obscure genre to liken it to but I'm at a loss. But seriously, how many anime could possibly fit into such a specific genre?--SeizureDog 03:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Japanese Wikipedia lists a few dozen, and it only seems to be listing the most significant titles that fit the format. Many big name titles fit it (Shinseiki Evangelion, Saishu Heiki Kanojo, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, etc). It seems to be the 'in thing' these days, so if I can find any sources I can reference on Boogiepop's influence on it, then I will have an excellent addition to the article. Elric of Grans 07:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

What's the Japanese article? I tried "世界システム" but that doesn't seem to be it.--SeizureDog 01:44, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

セカイ系. Unfortunately, there are no references here for me to use. What little of relevance it mentions would be a great addition though. Elric of Grans 01:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

(Don't forget RahXephon!) --Gwern (contribs) 02:18 4 September 2007 (GMT)

According to this thread on Animesuki, セカイ系 (sekai-kei) refers to Psychology oriented "first-and-second-person-view" type anime (like Evangelion, Shoujo Kakumei Utena and Elfen Lied) where's there's only "me," "you," and "the world". Sort of a "You and Me Against the World" mentality, I'm guessing.--Nohansen 05:23, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Good article nomination approved

I have read this article, and also consulted comments on the prior peer review. I feel this article has improved to the point that it should be considered a "good article". The concepts, which seem somewhat complicated, are nevertheless well articulated. The article is well organized and easy to follow. The references are well presented and seem extremely well documented. The article is neither too long nor too short, and conveys the basic concepts well without becoming sidetracked with the minute. The article maintains NPOV when dealing with topics such as criticism, and seems to be well tempered without weasel language or any other NPOV nonconformities. I see no evidence this article lacks stability, as a great deal of the editing has been accomplished by a small number of individuals. My sole complaint is with the images. These images lack reference and appear somewhat nonsequitur with the topics they border. Perhaps I simply don't understand the connection, but a caption would really improve this ambiguity. I understand that some images are difficult to come by, but they should generally mesh with the article, and not simply be a kind of scattered video trivia. The exceptions to this are, of course, the portraits of the four main characters, which are obviously explained and require no captions. Because the criteria of "good article" specifically says that images alone do not suffice to fail an article, I am passing this one with that one reservation, which I am pretty sure, given the quality of the rest of the article, the editors who have created this page will most likely have that cleared up quickly. I feel this was a job well done! Cheers! Chuchunezumi 05:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I can understand your concerns with the images, and will conceed they may not have been the greatest of choices. I shall see if I cannot come up with something better as I work the article up to a FA level. Thanks for your time and comments with this article! Elric of Grans 22:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Inspiration for a Soundtrack?

It was later adapted into a live action film by Ryu Kaneda, a two-volume manga by Kouji Ogata and served as the inspiration for a soundtrack composed by Yuki Kajiura. I am not entirely sure I get this. The soundtrack they're referring to is the soundtrack to the movie. Is this implying that the soundtrack was written before the movie was produced, or is it just written poorly? --user.lain 22:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Music Inspired by Boogiepop and Others was, well, inspired by Boogiepop and Others. Kajiura Yuki used the light novel as inspiration when composing the tracks. Yes, it is the movie soundtrack, and was released at the same time as the movie, but it was the novel that served as the inspiration, as stated. Elric of Grans 04:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Reminds me of a Music Inspired by Lord of the Rings soundtrack I listened to one time. Mind you, this was before Peter Jackson. --SeizureDog 00:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Article name

I have seen and been involved with a couple of articles recently that have changed their name from PAGENAME series to PAGENAME (series). It makes me wonder, should this page be called Boogiepop (series)?

Examples:Suzumiya Haruhi (series), Ojamajo Doremi (series)--Squilibob 04:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

It might be better to just have the article at "Boogiepop".--SeizureDog 04:38, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

It makes sense to me to have this as `Boogiepop (series)' with `Boogiepop' referring to, well, Boogiepop himself. Either could work just as well though. Elric of Grans 22:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Wagner reference

The article states: Boogiepop speaks in an archaic manner, and seems fond of whistling Wagner's Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg.

What, all of it? This opera is quite long and contains a large number of solo arias, ensembles, choruses, orchestral pieces, etc. Does Boogiepop whistle the same tune all the time? If so, which one? --GuillaumeTell 17:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Is there not a theme to the opera?--SeizureDog 23:45, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Not just one theme, no. Wagner worked with leitmotifs. In this opera, there are motifs that relate to the Mastersingers, the apprentices, the idea of "Wahn" (see the Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg article), the city of Nuremberg, Walther's musical inspiration, Beckmesser's carping, and lots more. And they mutate and mingle and relate to each other ... it's not easy to explain, but there are lots of books that do the job. Rent a video of the opera and see what you think! --GuillaumeTell 01:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Heh, not sure exactly where I'd rent opera tapes around here. I see your point though. But still, is there not one theme that's more famous or sticks out above all of the others? I'm really of no help here since I never seen any of the Boogiepop series nor Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg. I'm sure there's a similar problem with most editors not having seen both as well. --SeizureDog 01:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Reference already corrected in the article; according to the novels, Boogiepop whistles the overture. Doceirias 05:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

OK. The overture does include a lot of the main themes. It begins with a march that is used near the end of the opera to accompany the arrival of the Mastersingers at the midsummer day celebrations, so that's probably the one. It's motive m.01 here if anyone wants to listen to it. The whole of the overture can be heard here (and it lasts 9 minutes!) --GuillaumeTell 10:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Yep: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cfzCKNEYYA —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Doceirias (talk • contribs) 19:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

Towa Organization

Just wondering, what with more Boogiepop on the way, and the various articles that make reference to them, should we now or at some point in the future have an article or section that deals specifically with the Towa organization? Thought this would be the right place to bring this up.Hellspawn 23:18, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I think getting the article for the third book finished would be a better priority.

Frankly, details about the Towa Organization remain frustratingly elusive even within the series, and would be nearly impossible to source. Giving it its own article would probably just lead to deletion. It probably does deserves a section within the main article for the series, or within the individual novel articles, pointing out what we learn about it with each book. Doceirias 23:32, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Misc

Found this info regarding sales of Boogiepop. I'll let you decide whether to run with it or not.:

"Likewise in the 90's such works as Kouhei Kadono's Boogiepop and Keiichi Sigsawa's Kino's Journey sold three 'million units'" - Anime News Service, http://www.animenewsservice.com/archives/jan07.htm Hellspawn 12:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, I found this regarding the Night Watch series:

"Fans of the Boogiepop novels will enjoy a few references to characters in this novel reading his Dengeki Bunko titles, and the last act revelation that the 'enemy' is actually the same alien intelligence that sent Echoes to earth in Boogiepop and Others." - EasternStandard, http://easternstandard.pbwiki.com/Night+Watch Hellspawn 12:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

If you need some more information regarding the crossover series, check the japanese wiki entry on Boogiepop. Apparantely all the other works such as Soul Drop take place in the same "age" as Boogiepop, while Night Watch takes place in a future "age". You won't be able to reference that though. Hellspawn 12:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Most things I have read have stated two million, rather then three, so I am a little concerned about that figure. I have come up with several references to that in the past. I would like, if possible, to get some more up-to-date figures, however, that would probably be very difficult. That point on Night Watch is very interesting, and makes me want to read it all the more, but is probably not one to be used here. It might be worth adding it to the Kadono Kouhei page to demonstrate how the serials are linked. Elric of Grans 08:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Infobox

As you already know, the animanga infobox is problematic for this article. It automatically adds the anime and manga categories, when this article features neither. Also, it adds the "anime film" category, which is silly since Boogiepop and Others (film) is neither animated or based on an anime series. So, following the examples of Chrono (series) and Mana (series), recent GA-articles, I've decided to remove it.

Any objections?--Nohansen 16:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Rather than removing it outright, it should be replaced with an appropriate infobox, if at all possible. If not possible, then so be it. Elric of Grans 22:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I personally don't see what was wrong with the infobox before. Plenty of articles have multiple media in their infoboxes. See Haruhi Suzumiya (franchise). Speaking of that article, I think that Boogiepop series could also do with a concept section, outlining the basic concepts which define the Boogiepop universe, such as Boogiepop himself, the Towa organization, MPLS, and so on. Otherwise, there appears to be no centralized information on any of the above, and at most you will find info on Boogiepop in his character article. Readers will be clueless as to the nature of the Towa organization and what MPLS are. I think these issues should be addressed in the main Boogiepop article. See also the Japanese Wikipedia Boogiepop article. Hellspawn 21:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

That's exactly what these "series" articles are supposed to be: information on the recurring elements and origins of a series. So, instead of repeating information over and over, we just point the readers to the "series" article.

Besides what I already pointed out, I think this article looks better without the infobox. And I wouldn't look to the Haruhi article... The animanga infobox is too intrusive, just see SandyGeorgia's comment on the Lupin infobox ("SEVEN infoboxes?").--Nohansen 22:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

This article was something like that, in an earlier version. A lot of that stuff was pruned out during the process of getting it GA certified. There were too many complaints about those things (eg Towa Organisation, MPLS, etc) from the editors in the Peer Review and GA so they were dropped. If we can ever get some substantial information on them (ie more than the Japanese wikipedia page has), then adding them may not be a bad idea, but one-line snippets of information do not go down too well.

This article is, however, a general one for the whole series. If you read it, it is not difficult to discover references to the manga and anime as well as that for the light novels. The light novels are the central aspect of the series, hence their predominance in this article, but there are already aspects of the others present here, and there is no reason not to add more if it is relevant to do so. There is no point in beefing this article up on information that belongs on the page of a specific title, but if it is more general or of particular note (eg Boogiepop Phantom sales figures) then it belongs here too. Elric of Grans 23:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Well if this is an article for the whole series, considering that Boogiepop and Towa have something to do with all the novels, and MPLS play a part in most, I think it would be a good idea to include them in the article. But of course, only when we find out more. After we have book 6, which is the origina story, I think we should revisit this issue. Hellspawn 22:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Dual

Is Boogiepop Dual the same as Boogiepop Dual: Losers' Circus?--Nohansen 16:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Doceirias 18:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Which is the official English title? Because the Boogiepop template points to Boogiepop Dual: Losers' Circus. One must redirect to the other.--Nohansen 18:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The spine says Boogiepop Dual, but the cover and copyright page both says Boogiepop Dual: Losers' Circus. Doceirias 21:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I moved Boogiepop Dual to Boogiepop Dual: Losers' Circus, since that is the actual name for the manga. Hellspawn 20:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Naming orders

Which versions of Boogiepop use the Japanese naming order? Why isn't English naming order used? WhisperToMe (talk) 04:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The novels used the Japanese naming order. Doceirias (talk) 04:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Now, I notice that Naruto and School Rumble use Western order. Could we use Western order for this sucker since other non-Meiji or non-historical series almost always have some adaptation with western order? WhisperToMe (talk) 04:52, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia MOS would suggest all articles should use Western order, regardless of why the translations may have chosen not to do so. I'm not sure I always agree with that, but if you feel like doing all the work, you could use that argument to justify it. Doceirias (talk) 04:58, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Genre discussion

The genre field on Boogiepop Dual was recently changed from Speculative fiction to Mystery. I'm not the one who originally chose the term Speculative fiction here, so I'm guessing at the reasoning behind it, but I think it rather neatly covers the unusual nature of the series. "In some contexts, it has been used as an inclusive term covering a group of fiction genres that speculate about worlds that are unlike the real world in various important ways. In these contexts, it generally includes science fiction, fantasy fiction, horror fiction, supernatural fiction, superhero fiction, alternate history, and magic realism." Boogiepop is about half these things; sci fi, fantasy, horror, and superhero, all in one, but with a tone that doesn't really match any of them. (One thing it definitely isn't is a mystery.) I think it works pretty well. Doceirias (talk) 19:39, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Boogiepop character Boogiepop.jpg

The image Image:Boogiepop character Boogiepop.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:

• Image:Boogiepop character Suema Kazuko.jpg
• Image:Boogiepop character Miyashita Touka.jpg
• Image:Boogiepop character Kirima Nagi.jpg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --21:46, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Boogiepop/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Within its genre this is a major series hence the high priority rating. The quality of the article is already very good so at this stage a B is warrented. New stage should be to take the article through formal Peer Review and purhaps toward Good or FA status. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 09:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC) The article is currently at Good status, so I suppose the next step is to move towards FA? -- 9muses 17:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:23, 30 December 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 10:02, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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