Talk:Bernice Pauahi Bishop

Source request

Can someone please give a source to the claim that Bernice Pauahi Bishop was never entitled to the title "princess?" I can't find any sources to back this up, and I think it should be noted that the following organizations with ties to the high chiefess refer to her as a Princess:

• Bishop Museum
• Kamehameha Schools

The following also describe her as a Princess:

• Hawaii Visitors and Convention Bureau
• Documents in the State Archives
• Some legal documents relating to the Kamehameha Schools/Bishop Estate
• and, for what he's worth, Samuel P. King and Randall W. Roth

- 青い(Aoi) 09:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, see below. Of course, the word "Princess" was not used because the royal court generally used the Hawaiian language, not English. Later in the end of the 19th-century there were a few official European-style titles and styles, but during her time it was nothing formal. Removed. W Nowicki (talk) 23:15, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Court cases

I added some text on the 5 Dec 2006 ruling in the John Doe vs. Kamehameha Schools case. I included a link to the CNN page inline but I think this article needs a reference section at the bottom. There may be a better reference. Hopefully what I did wasn't too offensive. If they file with the Supreme Court, the article should be updated again.

--JoelSherrill 17:47, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Good addition, Joel, I've updated it into a reference and slightly changed the wording for NPOV. --JereKrischel 20:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I changed the will link to a reference. One issue remaining....there is something in the bullet list near the bottom that looks like a reference number but isn't. Any ideas what it is? --JoelSherrill 01:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that looked like an error. I've cleaned it up into a reference, thanks for pointing it out! --JereKrischel 04:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Honoraria

Please lets have some reliable sources for giving Bernice any honoraria, especially in her infobox. She was not "Her Royal Highness" nor a "Crown Princess" in anything I have determined (she never ruled and was never crowned). She was a descendant of the Kamehameha line, yet she never ruled. She declined to marry Prince Lot. She also completely declined his offer of succession to him. I don't even know if we can rightfully even call her "Princess," although she is given that honorarium in some publications. So let's be more careful with our assigning of titles; even though Hawaiian descendants of royalty may have differing honoraria customs than say British royalty, certain universalities seem to adhere. Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 12:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

If you want a sources, there won't be any. Bernice was never a lawful Princess in the eye of the law of the Kingdom of Hawaii.KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:50, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I can see the way some may think. The titles of most Hawaiian royals are honorific and erroneous. The main problem may be the interperation of the Hawaiian title Ali'i. The Aztec rulers are called Emperors by the Spanish, but the Aztecs never called their ruler so. The Chinese Rulers are called Emperors by most of the world, but the Chinese called there rulers Huang Di. To the Hawaiian, the Alii was a personel who inherited their status from their ancestors, just like any other world royalties.

I added the titles in the infobox, except the edit that state she was Crown Princess which she was not. Softlavender if you want to delete the titles, I okay with it. But don't delete the dates of death, burials, etc. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:50, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Half-cousin Kalola (died October 23, 1886)

Daughter of Abner Paki's brother Kalaniulumoku and Kihamanienie (or Kaapio Kiliamanienie)

• https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65961000/mrs-kalola-a-chiefess-of-the-ancient/
• https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65961575/funeral-obsequies-for-abigail-kalola/

• Lanihau and Kiliwehi were chief mourners indicating connection to Kuini Liliha's line

• https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65961044/obituary-for-kalola/
• https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65961331/evening-bulletin/
• https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65961208/the-hawaiian-gazette/
• https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65961248/funeral-of-abigail-kalola/
• https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65961303/kalolas-funeral-governess-lanihau/
• https://books.google.com/books?id=R_9HAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA290&dq=kalola+half-cousin&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWwfSD2-ftAhWFCjQIHV7DCoMQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=kalola%20half-cousin&f=false
• https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1019/ML101930401.pdf
• http://hawaiiangenealogies.blogspot.com/2014/12/bernice-pauahi-bishops-documented-next.html

• Husband Luluhiwalani and son Kahekili https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65961935/in-the-matter-of-the-estate-of/
• Death of son Kahekili on 31st birthday https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65962054/death-of-kahekili-son-of-kalola-and/

KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:55, 24 December 2020 (UTC)