Talk:Baron Marmion

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Evidence for Descent from the Counts of Rethel edit

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Alberic's Chronicle edit

Palmer^[1] first revealed an entry in the Chronicle of Alberic of Trois-Fontaines which claims the Marmion Barons of Tamworth are descended from the Counts of Rethel. Alberic supposedly said "Elizabeth wife of Gervais, Count of Rethel, remarried Roger Clarembauld, Lord of Rosoi in Thierache, who gave the hand of his step-daughter away from the country to the Baron of Tamworth, Sir Robert Marmion in order to disinherit her".

Although no evidence has been found of Alberic ever being dishonest the Chronicle was written a hundred years after the events are supposed to have taken place so the information may have become confused over time. Also, no name was given for Gervais' daughter,^{[nb 1]} nor which of the Robert Marmions^{[nb 2]} she married.

No other solid evidence for the Marmion-Rethel marriage has been found.

Millicent Marmion kinswoman of Queen Adeliza edit

A few years later Cokayne^[2] pointed out that Millicent, wife of Robert Marmion, 1st Baron Marmion of Tamworth (slain at Coventry in 1143), was described as "Milisend cognata mea" by Henry I's wife Queen Adeliza in a charter, in other words some sort of relation of hers.

In 1944 Moriarty^[3] claimed that because both Queen Adeliza and Gervais, Count of Rethel were descended from Albert III, Count of Namur that this must prove that Millicent was the daughter referred to in Alberic's Chronicle. Unfortunately, this is an optimistic leap of logic as Queen Adeliza had numerous cousins and it is perfectly possible that both Millicent and Elizabeth (if that is her name) were her kinswomen. The Marmions themselves married into the same families multiple times, e.g. Taisson, Fitz-Hugh, etc., and the same repeated intermarrying occurred in the aristocratic families in Normandy.

Summary edit

Most people seem to think it likely that one of the first two Robert Marmions of Tamworth married a daughter of Gervais, Count of Rethel, but it cannot be proved which or even what she was called. It is possible that either Millicent or Elizabeth was a Rethel or even both. More evidence will need to be uncovered if this puzzle is to be definitively resolved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sliven2000 (talk • contribs) 17:43, 27 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

Notes edit

^ Palmer suggested it was Elizabeth but didn't give a reference
^ There were 4 consecutive Barons of Tamworth all called Robert Marmion, of whom the first two could both feasibly have been married to the daughter of Gervais. Palmer thought it was the second (d.bef.Oct 1181)

References edit

^ Charles Ferrers R. Palmer (1875), History of the Baronial Family of Marmion, Lords of the Castle of Tamworth, etc., Tamworth: J. Thompson {{citation}}: |format= requires |url= (help)
^ George Edward Cokayne (1893), Complete Peerage, London: George Bell & Sons. {{citation}}: |format= requires |url= (help)
^ G. Andrews Moriarty (1944), Genealogists Magazine, London: Society of Genealogists

Add topic

[2] Palmer suggested it was Elizabeth but didn't give a reference

[3] There were 4 consecutive Barons of Tamworth all called Robert Marmion, of whom the first two could both feasibly have been married to the daughter of Gervais. Palmer thought it was the second (d.bef.Oct 1181)

[Palmer-1] Charles Ferrers R. Palmer (1875), History of the Baronial Family of Marmion, Lords of the Castle of Tamworth, etc., Tamworth: J. Thompson {{citation}}: |format= requires |url= (help)

[Complete_Peerage-4] George Edward Cokayne (1893), Complete Peerage, London: George Bell & Sons. {{citation}}: |format= requires |url= (help)

[Moriarty-5] G. Andrews Moriarty (1944), Genealogists Magazine, London: Society of Genealogists

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