Talk:Armenian–Azerbaijani border conflict

Speedy delete

This article is a clear copy of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, especially before it was summarized by EkoGraf. Both refer to the same thing, but this one was just recently made. It is a clear copy and should be deleted. --Hyrudagon (talk) 17:40, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because it tracks the recent developments on the border crossfire and the death on both occupied territory and Azerbaijan side, the deletion of 2015 death toll by user Hyudagon is being reported as vandalism since the user deleted all the information without any prior justification --Agulani (talk) 05:43, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because deletion nominator's (Hyrudagon) assertion that it is a copy of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is incorrect. The overall article for the long-lasting conflict covers two different periods. The war that ended in 1994 (which has its own article) and the subsequent cross-border fighting. More than half of the overall conflict article consisted of a timeline for the 2008-2015 escalated border fighting, while the previous war was summarized in a lot less than that. The material, information and sources on the 2008-2015 timeline were moved from the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict article to this one and only a summary paragraph consisting of four sentences was left in the main article with a link to this new article. --EkoGraf (talk) 06:01, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

HyruDagon

Dear above user, your constant attempts at vandalizing this page by deleting the number of casualties from both sides has reached its pinnacle. Please further refrain from editing as you have already been warned and discuss the issues you have with sources here. As provided both sources are from their countries where it clearly states Armenian losses currently stand at 26, i added 27th during the crossfire incident, while Azerbaijani side has acknowledged only 8. So both sources clearly state the numbers, VestnikKavkaz serves as a neutral source. Again please refrain from editing either post here where EkoGraf or me are more than happy to answer your questions Agulani (talk) 05:45, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

This number in the 20's comes from an Azeri source that claimed 20 Armenians were killed while the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic said 3[2]. Armenians are far more credible to report their own casualties and azeri media is full of propaganda, they claim hundreds of Armenian are killed every other week like here[3]. --Hyrudagon (talk) 17:05, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

You are incorrect. The news site might be Azeri, but the primary source cited is the Armenian news agency and the figure is being also cited as officially recognized. So its not the Azeri's who are claiming it, but Armenia. Yes, I agree, the Azeri's claim on a regular basis to have killed hundreds of Armenian soldiers, but the figure of just 27 killed during the whole year is contrary (goes against) any Azeri claims that have been made. And the Nagorno-Karabakh claim is just for one incident on one day, not the whole year. EkoGraf (talk) 00:16, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

References

Start date of the border conflict

I would like to ask all those involved in editing this article @Cozy00:@Agulani:@Yerevantsi: on whether we should change the date of the start of the border conflict from 2008 (when the escalations started) to 1994 (when the war ended) due to the fact that between 1994 and 2008 there were still sporadic clashes with dozens of deaths each year. What does everyone think? EkoGraf (talk) 15:54, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

I totally support the idea. 2008 was probably chosen because that's the year when this major wave of clashes started and Wikipedia was in existence. I honestly don't know how many clashes or skirmishes occurred between 1994 and 2008, but they must have resulted in some deaths at least. It would be nice if we had that info in the article. I'll try to do some research on the topic. --Երևանցի ^talk 15:59, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Saw an article from Al Jazeera yesterday that said 19 soldiers in all died in 2003, which prompted me to start this discussion. Also, this source [4] says 3,000 died between 1994 and 2009. EkoGraf (talk) 17:06, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Great. Then no objection from me at all. The date should be changed to 1994. --Երևանցի ^talk 17:25, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Unilateral ceasefire

A breaking news story on the BBC website says that "Azerbaijan announces "unilateral ceasefire" in fighting with Armenian forces over disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region". Would that go in this article or a different one? (Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35953916 - accessed 10:51, 3 April 2016)  Seagull123  Φ  09:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

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On supposed Russian support of Armenia

EkoGraf keeps adding that Russia supports the Armenian side in this conflict by citing a Stratfor article [5]. When I asked him to provide a quote backing this up, he pointed to the following: "Armenia has come to rely on Russian economic and military support". That does not say anything about Russia supporting Armenia in this particular conflict. The military relations between Armenia and Russia are vague and no Russian official has ever stated that they support Armenia in the conflict with Azerbaijan. --Երևանցի ^talk 11:57, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

The source clearly states they provide military support to Armenia. That support boosts Armenia during this conflict. If you check any of the current or past war articles on Wikipedia you will see the supported by category is reserved for those who provide military support to a beligerent during the said conflict. Russia is providing them military support during this conflict. The supported by category is not there to list those who voice vocal support for someone during a conflict. Adding more sources and quotes like: this one [6] Nagorno-Karabakh’s officials told The Daily Beast in interviews last summer that neither Armenia nor Nagorno-Karabakh could survive without Russia’s support in the conflict with Azerbaijan.; this one [7] Moscow has a defense alliance with Armenia; this one [8] Russia’s major military base at Gyumri. The 102nd Military Base...keeps 5,000 troops...ready to support Armenian forces and to serve as a deterrent against any Azerbaijani plan to retake the territory. Armenian forces receive training at the Russian base and the militaries of the two countries conduct regular exercises together. Russian officers inspect Armenian positions and provide tactical advice.; or this one [9] For 15 years, Russian support for Armenia has kept Azerbaijan from mounting another viable challenge to retake Nagorno-Karabakh. So, based on all these sources: Russia provides Armenia with military arms, Armenian officials say they couldn't resist Armenia if it weren't for Russian support, they conduct joint drills, there's a Russian military base serving as a deterrent against Azerbaijan, there are Russian military advisors at Armenian military positions, and Russian support to Armenia has had a direct effect against an all-out assault by Azerbaijan. I think all this more than constitutes as support. EkoGraf (talk) 13:45, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

EkoGraf. I agree with Yerevantsi. Russia is staying neutral on the Armenia vs Azerbaijan issue. Also see Sleeping with Our Enemy: Russia Sells Weapons to Azerbaijan, NATO representatives to arrive in Azerbaijan to discuss cooperation within IPAP, Azerbaijan reacts to French and British arms sales to Armenia. -- Tobby72 (talk) 19:31, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Tobby72 Per the five sources they are actively providing arms and military advisory support and thus actively deterring any large-scale Azeri invasion. With this, they fall under the category of Supported by (military support) as we have defined it throughout many war articles. Per this, I have properly cited/sourced the information. One of the sources even says, quote, Russia’s support in the conflict with Azerbaijan. EkoGraf (talk) 20:17, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

I agree with EkoGraf, Russia supports Armenia in N/K conflict despite actually trying to be neutral in broader Geopolitical context, its in Russia's best interest for Azerbaijan not having an edge over Armenia, the base in Gyumri as well military drills with Armenian army in mountainous areas, adding to that 200 million Army deal aid is supporting at least Agulani (talk) 12:12, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Armenian losses for 2016

Dear Users, i'm trying to figure out the best way to change the number of causalities without sourcing every single one of them. On my google drive excel file I have complied all Armenian casualties according to Armenian MOD and all news are taken from news.am/ru which is reliable source since 2016 January . Some of the death are obscure while MOD is claiming they have died in other circumstances, parents as news mention do not believe the death which might mean they have died from anything above that's why i propose to mention the numbers as confirmed-non confirmed as we did in the 2016 April clashes for Azerbaijani side. I will update the numbers daily based on the official MOD disclosures of casualties. Any thoughts? Agulani (talk) 07:45, 27 April 2016 (UTC)