Talk:Ardrossan Railway

Stewart 17:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Stewart 20:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Doura branch

It is shown as passing under the Ayrshire Railway. Which railway is this? The Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway?? Stewart 20:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what 'Ayrshire Railway' is meant to represent, but the Doura branch actually passed under both the L&AR and the Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway. It also connected to the GPK&A via sidings at the Eglinton Iron Works. --Dreamer84 20:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the vagueness of my edit. The statement comes from Whishaw, so it's the Glasgow, Paisley and Ayr railway. It seems to fit with a closed line shown on the 1:50,000 OS Sheet 63 (First series, 1976). Pyrotec 20:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The 1860 OS map for the area confirms that this was the case. I've seen the GPKA referred to as the 'Ayrshire Railway' in a couple of books before: was this an official name for the line at one point, or just a colloquial name that's crept into literature? --Dreamer84 21:27, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Politics! Whishall (1842) described it in the Contents as the Glasgow, Paisley and Ayr Railway . In the main body of the book it is called The Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr railway once; and The Glasgow and Ayr Railway, or, as it is frequently called, the Ayrshire Railway. He then mentions the proposed Kilmarnock branch. In the Introduction, he acknowledges assistance from the Glasgow, Paisley and Ayr Railway and J.H. Humfrey Esq of the Ayrshire Railway.

I don't think the good people of Kilmarnock, in the 1840s wanted a branch railway. They got a branch, but the name of the railway appears to have been changed to indicate that Kilmarnock and Ayr were of equal importance. I've read that somewhere (possibly Robertson, Chapter 3, but I can't find it at present). Robertson mentions in detail that as the proposed railway link to Glasgow was 12 miles longer than the road, Kilmarnock Town Council paid the survey costs of an alternative route: Kilmarnock to Ayr then to Glasgow from the south, cutting out Paisley. The argument went to George Stephenson for arbitration; and Kilmarnock lost the argument. Pyrotec 22:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Doura Branch

I am a bit confused about the Doura Branch. The route shown in the RDT seems to follow the route of the Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway through the ex-G&SWR lines around Kilwinning. The A78 bypass makes it difficult to follow the track beds, however, the L&A line can be seen heading toward the west side of the triangle of lines from the A78. I have not been able to deduce were the crossing of the Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway took place between Dubbs Junction and Kilwinning station. Was the Doura Branch subsumed into the L&A? --Stewart ^{(talk | edits)} 15:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

On this New Popular Edition map Doura is right of centre and you can see the line (marked L & M. S. R.) going back to the Kilwinning area where it gets lost in the tangle. More follows when I've had a cup of tea. Britmax (talk) 20:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the OS Map link - makes the layout even "more interesting". I had also forgotten about the L&A Branch to Irvine. Cannot quite workout where it diverges from the GPK&AR and the Ardrossan Railway link line, how it intertwines with the L&A (Main line to Ardrossan and branch line to Irvine) and I see it gets as far as the GPK&AR line at Montgrennan in addition the line you have indicated. The road development associated with Irvine New Town and the A78 Kilwinning bypass make it difficult to see what used to exist in that area. The GPK&AR RDT & L&A RDT do not show it at all --Stewart ^{(talk | edits)} 11:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Bit of a delurk to reply to this. The 1910 1:10,560 OS Map clears up the confusion slightly, you can view it via Oldmaps.co.uk [[1]] (search for Kilwinning, choose the map down the right hand side and click "Enhanced Zoom" to see a very clear version of it). It seems there was a Blacklands Junction between Dubbs and Byrehill Junctions, this is where the Doura branch started: the branch line keeps going east under the GPK&AR just at the point where the Dubbs-Byrehill line starts to go south to Byrehill from Dubbs. Just on the opposite side of the GPK&A was Eglinton Iron Works, which the line travelled through. From a quick look on Google Maps it looks like the tunnel under the GPK&A line still exists, just north of Byrehill Junction. The route of the rest of the branch line is still visible to the east of here once you get over the industrial estate. Slightly further north from the tunnel on the Kilwinning-Irvine line there was a another junction that lead into the Iron Works and presumably connected to the Doura branch as well. There doesn't appear to be an direct connection to any of the L&A lines, though it travelled under the L&A Irvine branch. - Dreamer ⁸⁴ 12:28, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistency

Our Scotch gauge article says:

• The Ardrossan and Johnstone Railway.[1] - Length: 10 miles (16 km).[2] Authorised on 20 July 1806 and opened on 6 November 1810

Why do the dates differ from this article (1831)?--Mais oui! (talk) 17:31, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

The confusion appears to originate from the source of the Scotch gauge article's dates, which are from Awdry's Encyclopaedia of British Railway Companies. The book states the following:

Ardrossan & Johnstone Railway: A 4 ft 6 in gauge line which grew from the Glasgow, Paisley & Ardrossan Canal, it was authorised on 20 June 1806 and opened from Glasgow to Johnstone on 6 November 1810. It was decided to build a railway to Ardrossan, so a company was incorporated 14 June 1827. Finance was difficult, however, and the line ran out of steam, as it were, at Kilwinning, opening in 1831. Its 5.5 miles of main line, with four branches, made a total length of 22.5 miles. In 1840 the company shook off its canal interests, changing its name to the Ardrossan Railway.

— Christopher Awdry, Encyclopaedia of British Railway Companies

There is a big error here, as I believe that there was no railway that ran from Glasgow to Johnstone at the time, so the 1806/1810 dates must refer to the canal itself? The canal's article appears to back that up. Given Awdry also mentions the 1831 that is sourced elsewhere for this article, I would say that is the correct year. - Dreamer ⁸⁴ 21:26, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Great! Your explanation (of Awdry's poor phraseology) is the only sensible one. --Mais oui! (talk) 03:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)