Talk:Amerindian slave ownership

Suggested reference

On slave ownership in Indian Territory, see:

• "Slavery" in The Encyclopedia of Oklahoma History and Culture http://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=SL003

--Carwil (talk) 14:58, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Review Comments…

Some questions you might want to address in this article:

• How common or uncommons was slave ownership among the FCT?
• When did this new form of slave ownership begin? How many slaves were owned at the time of removal? At the Civil War? (See Oklahoma reference above)
• How were slaves transported during the Removal period?

Point-by-point corrections or concerns:

• There's a tendency in the text to write a persuasive essay style rather than an encyclopedic style. Encyclopedia sections should state the facts first, and interpretations second, with the interpretations attributed to expert reliable sources.
  • Sentences like this are just unnecessary: "The interactions between African Slaves and Native Americans in antebellum United States is a complicated portion of history as slavery played a significant role in the creation and construction of America." The substantive points could be reworded. For example, "The antebellum United States was a slaveholding society, organized around the ownership of enslaved Africans. Its policies towards Native Americans included military confrontation, assimilation, and forcible removal from territory. …"
  • This sentence sounds like a speculation. If it belongs to the cited author, then put their name in as the person speculating: "It is unclear if Native American slaveholders sympathized with African American slaves as fellow people of color, class more than race may be a more useful prism through which to view masters of color."
  • Watch out for and remove WP:PEACOCK prose like "excelled in the production of cotton."
  • "and serving, ironically, to preserve native order"—The encyclopedic voice doesn't get to say this. Find a historian and write, "Historian John Henry observes that this served, ironically, to preserve the native social order." (But to be honest, I think that slavery caused increasing inequality within each of the tribes that adopted it.)
• In mentioning prior "slave" relationships within Native American societies, be brief and to the point about their differences, and link to Slavery among Native Americans in the United States#Native American slavery
• The idea that owning slaves was an assimilation strategy (or at least a consequence of assimilation) is sensible. The idea that it was a strategy for avoiding removal seems astonishing. Attribute it in the text, instead of writing "one theory says"
• "The adoption and adaptation of Euro-American institutions in cruel irony did nothing" is very POV and, stripped of "in cruel irony" belongs later in the section, not at the beginning.
• "Some of what would become known as the "Five Civilized Tribes""—You've already introduced them, this phrase is unnecessary.
• Stray quote mark after "was allowed by their British allies."?
• "The Seminoles targeted and held African American captives": this means they raided slave plantations and took African captives, right? It's hard to understand.
• Removable non-sequitur: "The Seminoles were also unique because they absorbed the remaining Yuchis population."
• "The Seminoles continued to destroy and raid plantations." When? After when and until when?
• The paragraph beginning "tensions" is a bit rambling. See if you can clean it up.
• It's not clear Chickasaw-Choctaw unification is relevant to this article.
• The last few sentences of the Cherokee section seem out of order.
• Separate the Choctaw material into paragraphs on slavery in the Southeast and in Indian Territory; there's a lot of switching back and forth.
• Methodist newspaper quote seems unrelated to slaves or slavery.

You're wrestling with a large amount of compiled material here. Thoroughly revising it into a clear narrative is important and worthwhile work.--Carwil (talk) 16:20, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Some of this wording was changed from the original text I will have to go through this and compare it to the original that was in Slavery Among Native Americans in the United States. There also wasn't a discussion on how to move this information which should have been done.Mcelite (talk) 16:35, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Misinformation and racism

The article by cabron7 about 5 indigenous tribes owning slaves is a blatant lie. Wikipedia needs to vet its writers better and not allow racists to spread lies about indigenous people. In the racist article there was 0 evidence provided for indigenous ppl owning slaves

There are first hand accounts of those who were there who said yes the indians had their own slaves. Learn more about Lewis and Clarks stories and the accounts of those around them and you will hear mention of slaves to many different tribes.

Scope discussion relevant to this page

I have opened a discussion on the page Slavery among the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. If it gains consensus, the proposal would expand this page. Please join the discussion if you have any thoughts. Riposte97 (talk) 00:13, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Title

I propose moving this article to 'Native American slave ownership in the United States'. The article is clearly geared towards the USA. Thoughts? Riposte97 (talk) 02:26, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Oh! Well, I came here after my comments on Slavery in Pre-Columbian America! Now that I see your query here, Riposte97, I’d like to suggest the title “Amerindian slave ownership,” following an addition here that I propose of plenty of book and other well-sourced material that would encompass not only US Indians, but also Canadian, Mexican, Caribbean, and South American Indians. I’d get the process started sufficiently that the revised title would not be a misnomer. Thoughts? And sorry to ping you on two different pages, I wasn’t aware this is a better forum. XavierItzm (talk) 04:27, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

No need to apologise! That sounds like a great proposal to me. Would you like to do the honours? Otherwise, I can when I get home this evening. Cheers Riposte97 (talk) 04:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I would appreciate that. Doesn’t have to be tonight! I will start adding material tomorrow. Will not touch the lede until after sufficient material has been added. XavierItzm (talk) 05:03, 6 February 2024 (UTC)