Talk:Prayag Kumbh Mela

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Allahabad in ancient times ?

Melas were not held in Allahabad in ancient times because Allahabad did not exist then; our holy city was then known as Prayaga.

Hindus do not have medieval mythology. It would be appropriate to give a reference.

Furthermore, Hindus have texts and scriptures and no mythology. Vedas, Puranas and numerous texts are certainly not mythological.

Integrate99 (talk) 19:54, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

1. That's like saying "people did not live in Republic of India before 1947, because the land was not known as 'Republic of India' back then". Anyway, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. As the references in this article state, the Mela at Allahabad came to be known as the "Kumbh" mela in modern times, when the city was known as "Allahabad". That's the name used on the official website.
2. Plenty of the Hindu mythology dates back to the medieval era, and even modern times. For example, 18th century is the terminus a quo for certain parts of Bhavishya Purana. The bit about dropping of amrita at four places is not mentioned in any of the ancient texts - it is a late medieval invention. The article already has references that support this assertion - from both Indian and foreign scholars.
3. Your religious beliefs might lead you to believe otherwise, but much of the content in these texts is purely mythological. utcursch | talk 20:44, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

'Prayaga is certainly not Allahabad'

I have read the correspondence about Prayaga with great interest. Prayaga is certainly not Allahabad. Prayaga is an ancient city from Vedic era and Kumbh or Magh Melas are Hindu events. Republic of India analogy is not logical here. Hindus have been celebrating these events long before any foreign invasions.

Prayaga is a sacred Sanskrit name. The name Prayaga can not be changed by anybody. Changing the name amounts to desecration of Hindu holy city.

Hindus do not have Mythology, only texts and scriptures. Those writers not understanding Sanskrit texts use the term mythology. Also, the word medieval (or middle ages) applies to European history only.

Incidentally, the fake and corrupt copies of Bhavishya Purana are also available.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.55.249.5 (talk) 19:54, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, you can complaint to the Indian government, because they call the city Allahabad. Or the mela's administrators - so do they. And to be consistent with your own logic, you should stop using the term "Hindu", since it's a Persian corruption and is not mentioned in Vedic literature.

We go by the Wikipedia's WP:COMMONNAME guideline here, and the most common name of the event in reliable sources is "Allahabad Kumbh Mela". Google Books, for example:

• Allahabad Kumbh: 360 results
• Prayag Kumbh: 83 results
• Prayaga Kumbha: 18 results

And irrespective of what you believe, Hindu texts and scriptures do contain mythology. Supernatural beings fighting over drink of immortality churned from an ocean is a mythical event. Just because it's mentioned in literature known as "itihasa", it does not become a historical event.

Also, irrespective of whether samudra manthan is a mythology or not, there is not a single ancient text that talks about someone dropping drops of amrita at four places. Feel free to prove me wrong by mentioning any such text with the relevant verse number.

As multiple reliable sources state, this story of "amrita drops" was invented by pandits in a relatively recent period -- you can call that period whatever you want, if you don't like the word "medieval". (By the way, "Medieval India" is a fairly common term in scholarly research). In addition, as the reliable sources state, there is no mention of any "Kumbh" mela at Allahabad before 1868.

utcursch | talk 20:54, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Hindu, Sanskrit and Mythology

It is widely known that the word Hindu is geographical, derived from Sanskrit word Sindhu (Indus in English) for a river. Hindu was used by ancient Zoroastrians (Parsis) and also mentioned in their sacred texts. During the reign of King Darius (6th century BC) the word Hindu was used. Greeks referred to Sindhu as Indos.

The Sanskrit concepts are often symbolic. Sanskrit language is not understood by most foreign writers and many scholars from India rely upon such translations.

You also can believe whatever you like.

Integrate99 (talk) 19:55, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

And what has any of that got to do with Kumbh Mela? If you understand Sanskrit language better than the writers cited in the article (which includes Indians, by the way) please find a Sanskrit text that uses the word "Kumbha" to describe the mela at Prayaga. utcursch | talk 20:44, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

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Magha mela

@Utcursch: The magha mela redirects to this article, but the coverage here does not do justice to this Magha month bathing festival that has been and is more widely observed every year on many river banks and water tanks. Ancient texts mention magha mela, inscriptions mention it and Maclean's scholarly sources mention it a zillion times. I was wondering if we should add a subsection here, or have a separate article. I lean towards breaking the redirect and creating a stand alone because we can then summarize other festivals including the history of what is now known as Maghi of Sikhism (it was recognized by Guru Amar Das in magh mela context, but now reconstructed). Any suggestions or objections? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 13:41, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

If there is enough content for a separate article, I don't see a problem with it. utcursch | talk 13:50, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Magh Mela is no longer a redirect. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 16:38, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Article title

Requesting comments on the article title discussion at Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics#Article titles for Allahabad/Prayagraj Kumbh Mela — DaxServer (talk to me) 09:21, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• 2019 Kumbh Mela Allahabad Shahi Snan.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:51, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2023

It is really mischievous to continue to call it Allahabad Kumbh Mela when from so many years the city is renamed as Prayagraj and the event is referred as Prayagraj Kumb Mela or Prayag Kumbh Mela. Hence I would request to remove Allahabad name and call it Prayagraj Kumb Mela only. 2405:204:222C:CBEF:0:0:2024:20A5 (talk) 18:04, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves. M.Bitton (talk) 18:53, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

The IP editor has misunderstood. The part of Allahabad near where the rivers join is called Prayag.-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:50, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

@Toddy1: Actually, the whole of Allahabad has been officially called Prayagraj since 2018. Vanjagenije (talk) 00:40, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

• Prayag = the part of Allahabad near where the rivers join.
• Prayagraj = another name for Allahabad.

-- Toddy1 (talk) 04:24, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 March 2023

Mohanshiv111gmailcom (talk) 08:30, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

See above.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:36, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Page Move

@Themodifie7 I am confused by the sudden page move. Could you explain why this page was moved? Thanks, HeartCat1^💬_📝 04:48, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

it was supposed to move this page to Prayag Kumbh Mela, which is popular as Prayag, not allahabad Themodifie7 (talk) 05:56, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I came by the way of WP:RM/TR where there was a technical request to move the article. Having evaluated the move history of the article, I find that the article title is a controversial matter that requires a WP:Requested moves discussion by the community. There are many moves since 2019 between the two titles (or similar). See the move history table below. Please do not move the article or perform cut-and-paste moves before the discussion is opened by an interested party and closed with a consensus to move.

Allahabad Kumbh Mela → Prayag Kumbh Mela → Allahabad Kumbh Mela → Prayag Kumbh Mela → Allahabad Kumbh Mela → Prayag Kumbh Mela → Allahabad Kumbh Mela → Prayagraaj Kumbh Mela → Allahabad Kumbh Mela → Prayagraaj Kumbh Mela → Allahabad Kumbh Mela

Date	From	To	Performer	Comment
2019-01-16T21:07:49Z	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Prayag Kumbh Mela	Razer2115 (talk | contribs)	Prayag is more suitable term in context as the event is mainly a religious affair.
2021-09-06T07:16:22Z	Prayag Kumbh Mela	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Fowler&fowler (talk | contribs)	By far the predominant usage
2022-09-08T13:40:09Z	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Prayag Kumbh Mela	Aj.abhishek1998 (talk | contribs)
2022-09-08T14:14:58Z	Prayag Kumbh Mela	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Arjayay (talk | contribs)	Rv moving page without discussion + contrary to WP:COMMONNAME
2022-09-09T14:20:51Z	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Prayag Kumbh Mela	Aj.abhishek1998 (talk | contribs)	The official name of this event is Prayag Kumbh Mela which is organized in Prayagraj district. This event is a famous hindu event which is held in the bank of sangam
2022-09-10T02:52:57Z	Prayag Kumbh Mela	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	LeoFrank (talk | contribs)	Revert undiscussed move. Revert to WP:COMMONNAME
2023-04-30T04:37:08Z	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Prayagraaj Kumbh Mela	Themodifie7 (talk | contribs)
2023-04-30T04:40:38Z	Prayagraaj Kumbh Mela	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Themodifie7 (talk | contribs)
2023-04-30T04:41:17Z	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Prayagraaj Kumbh Mela	Themodifie7 (talk | contribs)
2023-04-30T04:41:50Z	Prayagraaj Kumbh Mela	Allahabad Kumbh Mela	Themodifie7 (talk | contribs)

– robertsky (talk) 08:40, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 30 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Pending CSD by a sysop to move page. (non-admin closure) EggRoll97 ^(talk) 19:34, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

---

Allahabad Kumbh Mela → Prayag Kumbh Mela – The event is held at Prayag, which is the part of the city of Allahabad near where the rivers join. See https://prayagraj.nic.in/tourist-place/sangam/. -- Toddy1 (talk) 08:38, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

• Strong oppose It has always been called the Allahabad Kumbh Mela. View nearly 5,960 book returns in Google books (with limited views) for "Allahabad" "Kumbh Mela" including Kama Maclean's magnum opus, Pilgrimage and Power: The Kumbh Mela in Allahabad, 1765–1954, Oxford, 2008, vs 2,040 returns for "Prayag" "Kumbh Mela". Besides, there are many prayags, not just the one in Allahabad. Witness: Devprayag, Rudraprayag, Karnaprayag, Nandaprayag and Vishnuprayag. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
• Strong support: Google scholar and historical names from books is no reason to oppose a religious event that's been called Prayag Kumbh Mela in recent years. Also saying having "too many Prayag" is no excuse to update the article to its current name when all corresponding articles related to the city have already been updated.–JayB91 (talk) 22:04, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
• Support the event is called prayag kumbh mela from long time....here is article from late 2000's calling it Prayag kumbh mela -Kumbh Mela - University of Idaho, 2009Pamelathequeen (talk) 07:52, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Support Standard and widely used names should be used 209.23.10.85 (talk) 06:34, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support New sources call it "Prayag Kumb Mela" so we should be calling it as such as well. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 17:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

• Weakly oppose It may too early as it is still in colloquial use.

Tousif ❯❯❯ Talk 05:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Title change needs reconsideration, it should read Kumbh Mela at Prayagraj

Firstly, why was the above name change discussion closed in just 1 week? Anyway, here everyone need to understand that there is nothing called Allahabad Kumbh Mela or Prayag Kumbh Mela, it is simply Kumbh Mela at Allahabad or Prayagraj. So the title of the article should be Kumbh Mela at Prayagraj, and similarly it should be changed for other Kumbh Mela wiki pages, like Kumbh Mela at Haridwar etc. Kumbh Mela is held on a rotation basis in cities of Prayagraj, Haridwar, Ujjain and Nashik. Using words/titles like Haridwar Kumbh Mela etc. is flawed/incorrect. Simply google and see how the words are used. RohitSaxena (talk) 18:47, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

One week is a standard time for closing requested moves, by the way. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 04:28, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

When I posted this comment, the page wasn't moved. Though it is moved now. However, I would suggest to rename Kumbh Mela pages to be Kumbh Mela at Prayagraj for the reason I mentioned in my previous comment.RohitSaxena (talk) 18:54, 10 May 2023 (UTC)