Talk:Alfa Romeo Alfasud

Requested move 13 August 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus

4 editors (including the proposer) support the move. 2 editors oppose it.

I find there is consensus that both the current and proposed names are WP:COMMON NAMEs. The supporting editors argue that the proposed name is more WP:CONCISE. That policy states: "The goal of concision is to balance brevity with sufficient information to identify the topic to a person familiar with the general subject area." Although the proposed name is obviously shorter, I find there is no consensus as to whether it provides sufficient information for the general reader.

The opposing editors argue that the move is contra WP:CARNAMES. I find there is also no consensus on that point. The policy states: "Automobile nomenclature, including article titles, should generally take the form of make and model." This express a general rather than an absolute rule, and exceptions exist, such as Range Rover and Mini. One editor expresses that the article subject is clearly an exception, but this is not self-evident.

Any resubmission of this RM should clearly explain why the article subject is an exception to the general rule. (non-admin closure) Havelock Jones (talk) 09:44, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

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Alfa Romeo Alfasud → Alfasud – More WP:CONCISE and less redundant. No other pages with similar names so no need for disambiguation. A cursory search shows plenty of examples of "Alfasud" being used without "Alfa Romeo" coming before it (Evo, Jalopnik, Goodwood The Telegraph, Top Gear), and at a glance it would appear that both the current title and suggested title are WP:COMMONNAMEs. Consistent with how we use "Range Rover" as an article title and not "Land Rover Range Rover". HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 10:33, 13 August 2021 (UTC)HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 10:34, 13 August 2021 (UTC) — Relisting.  — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 16:34, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

The entry name currently used for Englishj wikipedia is the name used in Italian wikipedia and the other language versions I bothered to check. There's no obvious reason to change the name for the English language version unless you think the purpose of wikipedia is to celebrate English differentness. The car certainly was an Alfa Romeo even if the funding for the development and factory came from whoever it was that was paying for the Italian government at the time. Italian tax payers? (Which begs a whole lot more unnecessary and digressional questions.) If you will set up the necessary redirect pages, then people can access the page a range of names according to their personal tastes. But I don't see any particulat point in giving the English language entry a name different from that chosen for the Italian language entry. They never sold many Alfasuds in England and, strangely, most of the ones they did sell are no longer around here/there. Be well. Charles01 (talk) 14:05, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Can you explain what any of this has to do with Wikipedia policies on article titles? This is the English Wikipedia. How things are referred to in other languages isn't relevant. In WP:ENGLISH many sources refer to it simply as the "Alfasud", dropping the "Alfa Romeo", and following that usage would be more WP:CONCISE in a situation where there is no need for a disambiguating WP:QUALIFIER. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 15:32, 13 August 2021 (UTC)HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 15:33, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

• Support. Other Wikipedias have their own naming policies which reflect the language and the culture associated with it. Alfasud is better in keeping with our policy, and has always redirected here. Andrewa (talk) 13:32, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Automobiles has been notified of this discussion.  — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 16:33, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

• • Support. One of those cars like the Mini where the manufacturer was subservient to the brand, although the Alfasud was much more by choice. Take a look at the advertising for the car in the 1970s, it was almost always billed as "ALFASUD from Alfa Romeo", never Alfa Romeo Alfasud. Mighty Antar (talk) 22:02, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose The existing name is very clear and the Make-Model naming convention is the more common way to refer to cars in general media as well as on Wikipedia. I would argue the Mini page is the one that should move but that is perhaps complicated by the number of owners of the name. For readers in markets where this car was not common having the manufacturer's make included is helpful. In no way will this decrease any possible confusion or increase clarity. Springee (talk) 12:08, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose I don't see a pressing reason to deviate from WP:CARNAMES: Automobile nomenclature, including article titles, should generally take the form of make and model, which has been a long-standing de facto convention. In fact, I think it's so ingrained that most readers would think that the bare Alfasud was some kind of sub-brand rather than a single model. There are numerous models with unique names yet Safrane, Tiguan, Mondeo are all redirects. No such user (talk) 09:22, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Although <Make> <Model> is the usual format, this is clearly an exception along the lines of Mini or Range Rover.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:52, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.