Talk:Albert Seedman

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Albert Seedman/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cavie78 (talk · contribs) 10:40, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I'll take this one Cavie78 (talk) 10:40, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• "he once oversaw an investigation of a shooting death, in which" -> "he oversaw an investigation of a shooting death, in which"

 Done Daniel Case (talk) 06:36, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

• What are you citing with source 1 in the sentence beginning "As the detective commander for Brooklyn, he once oversaw an investigation of a shooting death..." That source doesn't support the "proceeded to find the guilty party by picking at place on the map at random" claim. You should use source 4 if that's the contentious point you feel needs a cite.

 Done Daniel Case (talk) 06:42, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

• "As the chief of detective he" -> "As the chief of detectives he"

 Done AAAAARRRGGGHHH! Daniel Case (talk) 06:42, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Newspapers, namely The New York Times and New York Post published the news often with a quote from Chief Seedman and he was a frequent on the evening news" Comma after New York Post. I think it would be better say "often included a quote from Chief Seedman in news reports" instead of "published the news often with a quote from Chief Seedman". Presumably you mean "he was frequently on the evening news"

 Done Daniel Case (talk) 06:42, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

• "and high-profile cases" -> "and the high-profile cases he had been involved in"?

 Done Daniel Case (talk) 06:42, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Early Life

• Ok

Police career

• Why is there a cite after "rising through the ranks" in the middle of the sentence? Cites should come after punctuation. I can't find mention of him being promoted to detective (rather than chief of detectives) in either source 3 or 1.

I decided to just cut this sentence; in context it's really unnecessary. Daniel Case (talk) 03:37, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

• "his unorthodox approaches that solved otherwise perplexing case" -> "his unorthodox approaches to solving otherwise perplexing case"
• "The man normally was out shopping at the time, Seedman insisted on entering the his apartment through a window" -> "The man was normally out shopping around the time, but Seedman insisted on entering his apartment through a window"

All  Done Daniel Case (talk) 03:37, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

1962–1971: As detective

• "By 1962, he had become a captain" -> "By 1962, Seedman had become a captain"
• "That was the first time that that had happened to a pair of NYPD officers in 30 years" -> "This was the first time a pair of NYPD officers were killed on duty in 30 years"
• "Some photographers, who arrived late, complained to Seedman"
• "He obligingly brought Dellernia out for them to see again" -> "He obligingly brought Dellernia out again nfor them to see"

All  Done Daniel Case (talk) 03:37, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Seedman knew the shot had to have been fired from" I think it would be better to say "thought" rather than "knew"

I decided to go with "believed" Daniel Case (talk) 03:37, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

• Maybe link "the tube" to television. The term isn't in common usage anymore.

 Done Alas, but understandably so. Fortunately I'm not as dogmatic about MOS:LINKQUOTE as some people. Daniel Case (talk) 03:40, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

• "with a 30 percent increase in the previous year alone" Make it clear which year you're talking about

 Done Daniel Case (talk) 03:40, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

1971–72: Chief of detectives

• I can't find anything about the BLA in source 1, beyond "Three pairs of police officers were shot — four of the officers were killed and two grievously wounded — in ambushes by the Black Liberation Army" What source are you using for the claims you make about the BLA
• "in one, no suspects have ever been identified" How do we know this attack was related to the BLA in that case?

 Fixed A lot of this was stuff from the Black Liberation Army article that I had never imported sources for. Turns out to have been a benifical lapse: I found this excellent Politico article (well, a book excerpt really) that tells this all in more detail and updates. They have subsequently identified and prosecuted some of the suspects. So I expanded this portion of the article and updated it accordingly. Daniel Case (talk) 05:16, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

1972 Harlem mosque incident

• "iman" -> "Iman"
• "Another officer's gun was missing" -> "Another officer's gun went missing"
• "tried to figure out what had happened" It's not clear whether you're referring to the police or the crowd here
• "the other worshippers were placed in custody" -> "the other worshippers were placed in custody"
• "Seedman was planning to interrogate them when he showed up" -> "Seedman planned to interrogate them when he arrived"
• "Seedman claimed they offered to have the mosque worshippers show up" Who is "they"?

All  Done or  Fixed. Daniel Case (talk) 17:36, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Louis 17X Dupree" Is 17X a middle name, nom de guerre, nickname, codename as an informant or a typo?

This is not uncommon with Black Muslims from that era ... many dropped what they considered slave names for either Arabic ones or, in this case, alphanumerics, usually with "X", that reflect the order in which they joined whatever congregation it was (so saith the note in the intro of Clarence 13X, an FA).

As this article in The New York Post notes, he now goes by another name, and I will put that in the article. Daniel Case (talk) 17:36, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Post-police career and retirement

• It wasn't clear to me on initial reading that you meant a Facebook Page for Seedman's memoir.

I've taken most of that out ... it has been added in the past by Seedman's family, who have been a little bitter over us having deleted the first version of the article that they started themselves after his death, so I haven't been too militant otherwise in enforcing this. Daniel Case (talk) 23:17, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

• External links "should not normally be placed in the body of an article" Can you add the link to Seedman's Facebook Page for his memoirs to the See Also section?

I use what is in there because it links to a photo of the letter in question from the French government, and Seedman posted it there himself as he was alive at the time. I suppose we could have the top-level link in xlinks. Daniel Case (talk) 23:17, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

• "trying to spur interest in a series" -> "trying to spur interest in a television series"

Has this been taken out by someone else since this review started? I can't find it. Daniel Case (talk) 23:17, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Legacy

• "Jerome Charyn recalls Seedman saying" I think you need to say "Crime novelist" or at least "novelist" again here, as it's so long since you first mentioned him

 Done Daniel Case (talk) 23:28, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Cultural

• "and in 2019 viewed by the largest audience to date, the millions of global Netflix subscribers watching Martin Scorsese's" Make it clear that you mean this was Netflix' largest audience to date
• "report following the infamous mobster crime" Which crime?

This part is in here because of a particularly determined new editor who I went back and forth with in March, at which time the nomination was still pending. He put this stuff in the intro; I took it out and he decided OK, it would be better down there. I didn't feel like having a huge fight about it, especially with the nom pending; the last thing you'd want is for the article to be under page protection. And I thought maybe this guy could be encouraged to become a good-faith contributor (in retrospect I was wrong; this is all he seemed to have been interested in). So I let it go for a while.

Well, that while is now up. Daniel Case (talk) 23:28, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Images

• Good, with appropriate licences

Sources

• All look good, but you credit source 24 to Albert Seedman even though he died in 2013. And is there a better source for his appearance in 'The Irishman'? A personal Facebook page doesn't screma RELIABLE to me

See above. That wasn't my decision. Daniel Case (talk) 23:28, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

General

• I appreciate you can't talk about every case, but his involvment in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion might be worth a mention? Article here: https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/03/weather-underground-bomb-guru-burrough-excerpt

I added something about that ... it does seem from the article like his oversight did something important there. Daniel Case (talk) 20:52, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

A really interesting article, placing on hold for now Cavie78 (talk) 15:38, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Cavie78: OK, I've gone through this punchlist and addressed everything ... how do you feel? Daniel Case (talk) 20:52, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @Daniel Case:. I think you're right to remove the Cultural section. I didn't suggest it myself, but it seemed really fluffy. Happy to promote! If you can deal with the following really minor points, that would be great:

• "This was the first time a pair of NYPD officers were killed on duty in 30 years" My bad, should have said "This was the first time a pair of NYPD officers had been killed on duty in 30 years""

 Done Daniel Case (talk) 00:09, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• "In November 2012, Seedman posted on his Facebook page that French President François Hollande had named Albert Seedman a Chevalier of the Legion of Honour in recognition of his military service there during World War II." Seedman posted that ... Albert Seedman. Can you word this better? Reminds me of the kind of third-person statements used by wrestlers!

 Done Daniel Case (talk) 00:09, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Congrats and thanks for introducing me to this guy! Cavie78 (talk) 21:10, 25 May 2020 (UTC)