Talk:Afghans in Iran

Afghan refugees

All Afghans in Iran are refugees except the visitors. The official website of the UNHCR states that the total number of Afghan refugees in Iran are 935,600.[1] The rest are Afghans visiting Iran with visas and I don't see why we must add those in here. User:CaliforniaAliBaba states "no, not all are refugees. Documents from the United Nations High Commissioner for REFUGEES will naturally be focused on refugees, but as detailed in the article there are other populations of afghans". There are other populations of Afghans?--Lagoo sab (talk) 16:12, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The term "Afghan" is not used for refugees from Afghanistan in Iran. It's rather "Afghanistani" an inclusive term for all inhabitants of Afghanistan versus "Afghan" which is another term for Pashtuns. It is a common identity marker that is used in Iran's media outlets and it is used by the UN as well. Here's a link to the UNHCR website; https://help.unhcr.org/iran/arrival/ Marathonmutig (talk) 19:07, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

If you read the "Migration history" section it is quite clear that migration from Afghanistan to Iran has been occurring long before the modern wave of refugees. cab (call) 02:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, if you are going to cite articles which are already listed in the References section, please follow the existing citation style: use {{harvnb}}, not a bare link. The study you tried to use as proof of the ethnic breakdown of the Afghan population in Iran in fact explicitly did not draw an ethnically representative sample, but rather used snowball sampling in order to find members of certain ethnic groups in areas dominated by other ethnic groups, people with higher-than-representative educational levels, etc. From pages 9 and 10:

Snowball sampling techniques were used to identify respondents through social networks, and the study’s Afghan field manager contacted local residents, elders, organisations, Afghan schools and cultural centres, and Afghan shops to identify suitable respondents. Identifying respondents according to the sampling frame criteria proved both difficult and time-consuming. This was most evident in Mashhad where the sample frame required identification of ethnic Tajik and Pashtun respondents in a predominantly Hazara ethnic location.

Thus the characteristics of the study sample are not intended to be generalised to the characteristics of the population as a whole. cab (call) 02:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea what you're trying to explain with your logic. If they have no Iranian citizenship and no legal resident status then what do you call these people? Afghan ghosts? My logic says how can there be Afghan citizens living in Iran who are not refugees, not Iranian citizens, not Iranian legal residents, and not visa holding visitors?--Lagoo sab (talk) 19:31, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

My second point is that those Hazaras you mentioned migrating to Iran in 1850s are no longer Afghan citizens. Before 1935, the people living in Iran (Persia) were not recognized as Iranian citizens so each group held on to their own ethnic names and the Hazaras were registered as "Hazaras" and not Afghans. Secondly, Hazaras are not even 10% of Afghanistan's population according to all sources, including the CIA factbook and others, and for you or anyone else to claim that the majority of the 1 million Afghan refugees living in Iran today are Shia Hazaras is a nonsense POV. The cited reference cannot be verified and is an unreliable source. Only the UNHCR can tell us their ethnicity and sect of religion because they are all registered with them and all their data is recorded by the UNHCR in computers. How can one book writer know the sects or ethnicity of 1 million Afghan refugees who are scattered in different parts of Iran?--Lagoo sab (talk) 19:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

You running around calling things "nonsense POV" is quite a laugh when you leave edit summaries like this. The cited reference is quite verifiable, being a published academic paper which makes an explicit assertion about their ethnicity. Furthermore, every single article about "Xyz people in Abc country" is not just about the present citizens, but about the descendants of the earlier migrants as well. cab (call) 00:11, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Focus on the issue, and my comment about floods in Pakistan is a fact whether you agree or not. Anways, the people who migrated from Afghanistan to Iran long time ago are NOT Afghan citizens, they are Iranian citizens today and so they are Iranians. Are the Chinese who made it to USA in the 1800s considered citizens of China today? No they are not and similarly the Hazaras who migrated to Iran in the past are no longer Afghans. This article is focusing on citizens of Afghanistan living in Iran. You probably think that "Afghan" is ethnicity but that's not the case. The CIA factbook or any other source lists all the different groups of Iran but doesn't mention Afghans.--Lagoo sab (talk) 00:40, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Clearly you haven't even read the Chinese American article, which quite prominently discusses events of the 19th century involving Chinese migrants to the USA, like United States v. Wong Kim Ark. cab (call) 01:09, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I know alot about Chinese Americans without reading Wikipedia. For example, Bruce Lee was an American of Chinese heritage. As for these Iranians whos ancestors may have come from Afghanistan, they are considered Iranians because they hold Iranian citizenships. They do not call themselves Afghans, in Iran they are not labelled Afghans but Hazaras. This is the difference, Chinese Americans proudly call themselves Chinese or Chinese American but the Hazaras of Iran reject being called Afghans because they claim Afghans are Pashtuns. The Iranians and Tajiks also hold the same view.--Lagoo sab (talk) 03:41, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

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