Talk:2023 Pakistani protests

Proposed merge of 2023 Imran Khan arrest attempts into 2023 Pakistani protests

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To merge 2023 Imran Khan arrest attempts into 2023 Pakistani protests given their overlap. Klbrain (talk) 09:07, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

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WP:REDUNDANTFORK / WP:DUP: The two articles cover exactly the same subject. Fontaine347 (talk) 18:05, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

@Fontaine347: And for 2022 Pakistani political crises and 2022–2023 Pakistan political unrest and 2022 Azadi March II and 2022 Azadi March I? Panam2014 (talk) 15:10, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Even this Arrest of Imran Khan Mixmon (talk) 21:25, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

@Mixmon: what is the solution? Panam2014 (talk) 12:10, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Support per Fontaine347. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 02:44, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Support per nom Uzek (talk) 19:43, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - these are separate notable events that deserve a standalone article. Shaheen of Iqbal (talk) 07:57, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• Support merger Per Fontaine347. War Wounded (talk) 10:55, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

  And 2022–2023 Pakistan political unrest? Panam2014 (talk) 13:34, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Support the 2023 Imran Khan arrest attempts article can have a section under the 2023 Pakistani protests . Rager7 (talk) 16:38, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

merge or split?

I propose a split in this article, I am supporting for a new article: 2023 Pakistani clashes. I don't understand why there are other parts of the previous "protests" when they could also be split, I would rather put this article into 2022 Pakistan protests and put the new clashes today into a seperate article. NYMan6 (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Also:

Links:

https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20230509-pakistan-s-ex-pm-imran-khan-arrested-during-court-appearance (France 24: Clashes)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-65531648 (BBC states: "Violent clashes have broken out in Pakistan between security forces and supporters of former prime minister Imran Khan after he was arrested": Clashes)

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/09/exp-imran-khan-arrest-amanpour-pkg-050901pseg3-cnni-world.cnn (CNN: Violence/clashes)

https://news.yahoo.com/arrest-pakistans-ex-pm-imran-170936018.html (Yahoo News: Clashes)

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/former-pakistan-pm-imran-khan-arrested-geo-tv-2023-05-09/ (Reuters: Nationwide violence)

NYMan6 (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

• Strongly oppose articles need to be merged.

Panam2014 (talk) 12:12, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I was confused on wether to merge or split, thank you NYMan6 (talk) 13:14, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Confused

 Comment: This article should be about the events of March 2023: Imran Khan arrest attempts and the resulting clashes. But they added information about other unrelated protests.--Fontaine347 (talk) 15:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

@NYMan6: I’m not sure what’s supposed to be split or merged, but splitting the latest protests makes more sense than merging to me. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 01:30, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

• Yikes, this talk page is a mess. I tend to agree with merging in the material from the "Arrest Attempts" page, seeing as most is about the protests. I also agree in theory with splitting this page, because the pre-arrest and post arrest protests should be considered different, but I question the value in even keeping the material about the prior protests seeing as only 3 days worth of events are covered. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:31, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

  I am saying for us to merge this page into the "2023 Pakistani clashes" because obviously this isn't just protest anymore, by the way that's even why I listed those above. By the way to also delete the parts about protests before these clashes. NYMan6 (talk) 10:48, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

  @DarkSide830 Exactly, what I am trying to say. I want a whole new article for this article instead of full on every single event that's happened this past year. Merging either "May 2023 Pakistani clashes" temporarily or "2023 Pakistani clashes" if this extends past this month. NYMan6 (talk) 10:58, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

@Blaylockjam10 as I've told the person below, I am saying for us to merge this page into the "2023 Pakistani clashes" because obviously this isn't just protest anymore, by the way that's even why I listed those above. By the way to also delete the parts about protests before these clashes. NYMan6 (talk) 10:48, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

I support this split. furthermore, "2023 Imran Khan arrest attempts" should be merged into "March 2023 Pakistani clashes".--Fontaine347 (talk) 15:35, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

I'd support merging the 2023 Imran Khan arrest attempts article w/the pre-arrest protests in this article & splitting this article into 2 articles: 1 about the pre-arrest protests & 1 about the post-arrest protests. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 03:00, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

I have not gone through all the discussion in detail but pre-arrest protests & 1 about the post-arrest protests can be a good idea.

There are multiple articles on ongoing politics in Pakistan I hope these discussions help optimizing them.

On side note, it's perfectly understandable some or other side will have more political support that shall reflect to some extent in Wikipedian's editing. In regard to Pakistan politics sides other than Imran Khan seem to get lesser consideration. There seem to be some scope to balance that a little better for sake of Wikipedia's neutrality. Bookku (talk) 03:48, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Lead figures?

I feel that the lead figures section of the infobox is missing some information. Namely PTI leadership before the arrest, leaderships of the various police and military wings involved. Khan's wife?

Or should we just keep that section as minimal as possible to avoid cluttering? Scu ba (talk) 00:31, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

2023 Zaman Park raid

I would welcome more informed opinions as to whether 2023 Zaman Park raid should be a stand-alone article or a redirect to here. The merge discussion above may or may not be relevant. Certes (talk) 12:35, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thanks for your work

North8000 (talk) 16:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Previous consensus to merge

@Mfarazbaig Please refer to Talk:2023 Pakistani protests#Proposed merge of 2023 Imran Khan arrest attempts into 2023 Pakistani protests for a prior consensus to merge the articles. Renaming an article with the same content doesn't invalidate the previous consensus. The Zaman Park raid was a component of the broader 2023 Pakistani protests. Without a new consensus to separate them, you can't undo the merger. Pinging the editors who originally tried to implement the consensus after merger discussion. Please review the edit history of 2023 Zaman Park raid and above-referenced merger discussion in order to contribute to the decision-making process. @Amakuru and Certes: Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 17:09, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. There was a discussion which led to a consensus to merge, and I don't think that should be overridden without a discussion.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:05, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

The merge has been reversed again (from Zaman Park raid), I note. It might be justified to boldy replace it, on the grounds that WP:SPLIT hasn't been followed. However, just in case, I've added merge templates back. I note that the question is not about notability, but about short text and context. I imagine that activity here may be stimulated by the forthcoming anniversary. Klbrain (talk) 14:00, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

The Zaman Park raid was a separate event (much like the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago) that led to the 2023 Pakistani protests and has a different scope covering the police action at that one particular location. Furthermore, there's no WP:DEADLINE with regards to the expansion that can be done to the article. Mfarazbaig (talk) 15:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Regardless of your rationale, you cannot unilaterally override a previously reached consensus. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 16:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)