Talk:2010 Brooklyn–Queens tornadoes

Move this page

This page should be re-titled "2010 Brooklyn/Queens tornadoes" since there were two confirmed tornadoes over Brooklyn and Queens, not just in Brooklyn. The Queens tornado was the stronger of the two, so the title should reflect that fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leizmonk (talk • contribs) 15:28, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Move

I suggest this page be moved to September 16, 2010 tornado outbreak as this event consisted more than just the tornadoes that affected New York City. A number of significant tornado impacted other locations. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:08, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

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Clarification

I have emphasized the extent of damage and the neighborhoods most affected in Brooklyn and Queens. I have also added a New York Times article to cite these changes. 17:44, 1 Aug 2021 (EST)

Requested move 11 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved to the alternate proposal 2010 New York City tornadoes. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 21:55, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

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2010 Brooklyn/Queens tornadoes → Tornado outbreak of September 16, 2010 – Destructive tornadoes also touched down in Ohio 47.21.202.18 (talk) 16:18, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. The article focuses on the 2 tornadoes that hit New York City. The others are mentioned just in passing as being related. It might be possible to create a separate article about the Midwest tornadoes that day, if there are good sources. Or if this article is expanded, then the title might be changed at that point. I would support a change to 2010 New York City tornadoes, though, as that is more recognizable and because slashes in article titles are discouraged. Station1 (talk) 22:47, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Support this alternate proposal as argued, but similarly oppose the original suggestion. Andrewa (talk) 16:38, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 5 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 01:45, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

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2010 New York City tornadoes → September 2010 New York City tornadoes – A tornado touched down in the Bronx on July 25, this will avoid confusion. 47.21.202.18 (talk) 21:10, 5 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 07:29, 21 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 06:56, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

• Comment. When I suggested in the RM last December that this article be moved to 2010 New York City tornadoes, I had no idea that we already had an article titled 2010 Bronx tornado. Perhaps it would be better to move this article back to 2010 Brooklyn/Queens tornadoes, despite the slash, as more recognizable disambiguation than the month. The current title would then need to be a dab page or deleted. Station1 (talk) 09:40, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject New York City has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 06:56, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Weather has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 06:56, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose renaming to September 2010 New York City tornadoes. I do Support it returning to 2010 Brooklyn/Queens tornadoes. United States Man (talk) 13:24, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
• I’ve thought about it, and this page needs to be merged into Tornadoes of 2010#September 16. The article is poorly formatted, and doesn’t contain enough information on the tornadoes to survive. While two tornadoes in New York is notable, the information is lacking and the section wouldn’t be too bloated. We did something similar to 2014 Smithfield, New York tornado so I don’t see why this is any different. The information could be merged and while on the longer side, would still be better then this article while also not solving the title issue. If a merge is undesirable, I have 3 proposals to float - 2010 Brooklyn and Queens tornadoes, 2010 Brooklyn-Queens tornadoes (to remove slash) and 2010 Western Long Island tornadoes. That is all I will say. 47.21.202.18 (talk) 13:47, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

  Agree with IP47 above. Second and third to touch down isn't a strong claim to notability. However this and the Bronx one could also be merged into this article as the name would fit. Star Mississippi 02:10, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Titles beginning with YYYY are a particular standard, with clear consistency and meaning. Putting the month first is not ok, unless sources put the month first and this format meets COMMONNAME. Disambiguation goes at the end, not the front. Find another way to disambiguate, if it is true that readers are getting confused, which I doubt. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:24, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 23 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to 2010 Brooklyn–Queens tornadoes (which is also similar to the former title of 2010 Brooklyn/Queens tornadoes). There is consensus against the title proposed in this RM, as indeed there was in the earlier RM, but the participants do agree that some disambigutation with the Bronx title is needed, therefore that is the consensus.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:51, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

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2010 New York City tornadoes → Tornado outbreak of September 16, 2010 – per my recent additions, and per the confusion above, I think it really is best if the title is updated to be more inclusive of the whole storm. Plenty of sources exist for the Ohio/W Virginia tornadoes. 47.21.202.18 (talk) 20:31, 23 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:36, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose – You didn't add anything recently. This article is predominantly about the New York tornadoes. Leave well enough alone. United States Man (talk) 21:33, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

  It’s a little rude to say I didn’t do anything when I did, anyway I will add more information. 47.21.202.18 (talk) 12:21, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

  Ok, I added some more information, and I also cut out a bit of cruft/unnecessary information. There is a very real problem with the title; it causes confusion with the 2010 Bronx tornado, and there’s no evidence this is a clear WP:PTOPIC.47.21.202.18 (talk) 12:32, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose Oppose and propose 2010 Brooklyn and Queens tornadoes or 2010 Brooklyn-Queens tornadoes, per previous RM, to disambiguate from 2010 Bronx tornado. The current naming convention, WP:NCEVENTS requires the date, whether year or month, to be before the "where" and "when". Don't see a reason to be more specific, unless there were other separate tornadoes in NYC in 2010. Noting that point 4 of the tornadoes guideline of NCEVENTS bypassed consensus-building on the guideline talk page, and in my view runs contrary to NCEVENTS, so WP:IAR applies in this specific move, before the 2017 change is cemented or rejected by an RfC. Pilaz (talk) 13:11, 29 September 2022 (UTC) Vote changed, Pilaz (talk) 15:26, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

  Actually, Pilaz, there was another seperate tornado in NYC in 2010 (July 25). It was the 2010 Bronx tornado. In addition, traditional tornado outbreak format is to usually have the date and then “tornado outbreak”. The most recent example I believe is Tornado outbreak of April 4-7, 2022. 47.21.202.18 (talk) 21:09, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

  While I understand your argument regarding Tornado outbreak of X, their current naming is in defiance of WP:NCEVENTS, and I cannot support the requested move as phrased at this time. In fact, the article you mentioned should be renamed April 4-7 2022 United States tornado outbreak, or the single state location if limited to one. Tornadoes outbreaks happen all over the world, as Lists of tornadoes and tornado outbreaks illustrates. Pilaz (talk) 18:03, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

  No, WP:NCEVENTS does explicitly say, If there is no accepted name, the name should be formatted as follows: tornado, tornado outbreak, or tornado outbreak sequence, followed by Geographic location (only if necessary: City, State, Country, Continent, or any combination of these), followed by Year (or Month/year, or day/month/year if need be). Example: Tornado outbreak of April 14–16, 2011. While the other parts of it would tend to favor 2010 New York City tornadoes, (1) there was a more destructive tornado outbreak in Ohio, it’s just that United States Man WP:STATUSQUOSTONEWALLed to have additional information kept out, and (2) there was another tornado in New York City in July. The issue with the Brooklyn/Queens tornado was the slash. And Brooklyn-Queens tornado makes it sound like the tornado crossed borders. Also, the current title makes it seem like it occurred in Manhattan. Maybe, “2010 Brooklyn and Queens tornadoes” could work, but given the tornadoes in ohio and West Virginia, which caused an EF3 tornado an fatality, this seems better. 72.80.246.5 (talk) 22:23, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

  It's not hard to verify that the previous version of the guideline read as "Examples: January 2008 tornado outbreak sequence, May 1–2, 2008 tornado outbreak, or 2007 Brooklyn tornado", before the guideline was altered without seeking consensus on the guideline page in 2017 (diff). Clearly, an RfC about such inclusion was and is still warranted to cement it or go back to the old naming convention, which I believe aligns with WP:NCEVENTS better. WP:IAR applies in this specific case. As for the article title, why not disambiguate this article from the 2010 Bronx Tornado with 2010 Brooklyn and Queens tornadoes or 2010 Brooklyn-Queens tornadoes? The original article title included both, with a slash. Pilaz (talk) 15:16, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

As far as the NCEVENTS goes that was established at Talk:Tornado outbreak of April 6-8, 2006 in a RM. I am ok with “Brooklyn and Queens tornadoes”, but I oppose “Brooklyn-Queens” tornadoes, because a hyphen implies it crossed borders and they didn’t. 47.21.202.18 (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Limited, localized consensus cannot supersese guideline-level consensus, per WP:LEVELCON. Pilaz (talk) 13:20, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

I also support it returning to the original 2010 Brooklyn-Queens tornadoes, as I did in a prior move request. I generally ignore anything the anon user says since they’ve been IP hopping to carry out a vendetta against myself and other users for months now. United States Man (talk) 22:06, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

WP:ASPERIONS 47.21.202.18 (talk) 22:11, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Thoughts on whether the current title is ambiguous with 2010 Bronx tornado? Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:36, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.