Talk:1956 Niles Canyon Douglas R5D-2 crash

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North8000 (talk) 21:03, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I am an unnamed daughter of the crew member incorrectly listed as Terrell M. Young. His correct name is Carroll M. Young. He is said to have had one child but, in fact, he had two children. An unlisted child was four months old at the time and was not recognized in the military record, perhaps because it was a non-computer Information Age and the military records had not caught up yet. I am that child. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thiacomo (talk • contribs) 21:02, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

The location of the crash site.

First of all, everyone needs to remember that it's on private property. Trespassing is a crime so hiking in for a looky-loo would be a really bad idea. And harassing the the owners isn't going to win you any life points. So really, just don't.

In a newspaper account, rancher Ray Stephan said he "ran out" because he heard a plane flying too low. It hit the hill "opposite my house" on a ranch owned by Elmer O'Connell. The paper said he ranched on Stonybrook road. An article from the 1930s described Stonybrook road as leading "from a farming center northwesterly for a distance of six miles to the Palomares Canyon Road." Also, the coastguard said the site was 3.5 miles northeast of Niles. So let's sift through those OSINT sources.

But, again, leave the people who own it and/or live there ALONE. Anyone pestering these people is just showing the world they have the social skills of an incel. Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 10:20, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

How we know where the crash site is. (Google Earth Pro is needed for this.)

1. The lower-left corner of page 2 of the Oakland Tribune for February 18, 1956 has a rudimentary map:

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=OT19560218.1.2

Stony Brook runs down Stonybrook Canyon alongside a road named Palomares Road in its upper half and Stonybrook road in the half near Niles Canyon.

2. Page 2 of the San Bernardino Sun has a brief eyewitness account from Ray Stephan, “a rancher on nearby Stonybrook Road,” at the end of the article called “38 Marines Killed in Alameda Plane Crash.” Stephan says he “ran out” and thought the plane was going to hit the hill “opposite me.” It flew over that and hit “the next ridge beyond it.”

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SBS19560218.1.10 But where was Stephan living? The 1950 census tells us.

3. The link below shows the census enumeration districts (ED) for Alameda County. District 1-191A is on the last page of results.

https://1950census.archives.gov/search/?county=Alameda&page=9&state=CA

• When you find it, click on the “Population Schedules” button. The portfolio cover displays with a filmstrip below it.

• Click page 2 in the filmstrip. Tapping the image enlarges it. Note the handwritten comments at the top telling exactly how the enumerator proceeded on his route. #2 says he moved NORTH up Palomares Road from Niles Canyon Road.

• Raymond J Stephan is on line 13. Just to the right of the line numbers is vertical writing. That's the road name, Stonybrook Canyon. To the right of that is written, “2 ½ miles right” followed by a 2 sitting in a half-box. That's referring to note #2 at the top. If you read everything recorded for Ray Stephan on line 13 you'll see that he was an Aircraft (illegible) Technician in 1950 with a repair shop in his own home.

4. Open up Google Earth Pro (not Google Maps in your browser) and navigate to Niles Canyon, Fremont, California. Go northest of that, past Dresser, to a T intersection. Google Earth calls that Palomares Road, but it's actually Stonybrook road.

• Click Google Earth's “Show Ruler” button at the top. Click the Path tab, then click at the T intersection and click your way along the winding road until the path is 2.5 miles long. The east side of the road here is where Stephan was living. There is a box canyon southeast of where Stephan was but he didn't say the plane hit “beside me.” He said “opposite.” It seems the plane flew over Sunol Ridge, crossed Stonybrook Canyon and hit the box canyon west of Stonybrook.

5. This US Geologic Survey map from 1953 gives the name of the ridge. It's Walpert Ridge. The little black squares near the word “Stonybrook” are houses and Stephan lived in one of them.

https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/overlay/CA/CA_Livermore_298028_1953_62500_geo.jpg

If you go back to Google Earth Pro and use that path tool to draw a line from the crash site to Niles, it's roughly the correct distance from Niles, as cited in the newspaper articles. Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 13:49, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I've finally been able to get access to a better source on Stephan. This article says he saw the plane flying to the southwest before it crashed: https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-san-francisco-examiner-removing-plan/140429305/ Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 04:00, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

The image I added...

It was taken in Iraq in 2006. I know the men in this article didn't die in war, but they did die serving our country. I can't find any battlefield crosses from their era that I can use without violating copyright, so if someone else does, please replace it. Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 04:21, 27 January 2024 (UTC)