Talk:Murder of Joy Morgan

Chronology

"date=2021-01-03|website=www.herts.police.uk|language=en-GB}}</ref> - c. 26 December 2017) was a British university student who was murdered by a fellow member of her church organisation, the Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ. Morgan was last reported as being seen on the 26 December 2019 at her local church in East London at a Boxing Day Celebration, but was not officially reported as missing to the Metropolitan Police Service until the 7 February 2019": how can she be seen on 26 Dec. 2019 if she died two years before? then the reporting date is ten months earlier: how does the muder happen immerdiately after the last sighting (if the 2nd date is corrected to 2017?)--Johnsoniensis (talk) 06:40, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi apologies for that, that was in error. Thank you for fixing this though! Theprussian (talk) 16:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I've corrected the various years in this mess. Murder was Boxing Day, 2018, per Guardian source. --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:28, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Notability

I have tagged this article for notability, as it does not seem to meet our notability guidelines for events. While any murder is tragic, there is no sign that this particular murder has achieved historic significance, nor is likely to. --Nat Gertler (talk) 15:53, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I gather you have tagged this article for not meeting notability, however, this article does already meet the guidance of notability, particularly WP:GEOSCOPE the article had multiple sources from several nationwide news agencies in the UK reporting on this matter for some time. Additionally, it had WP:INDEPTH coverage, with several in-depth news reports. One of which was a BBC Newsbeat documentary about the murder of the article's subject. This also included a "long-read" article by the BBC. Finally, there is also the fact that the article has a diverse number of sources of both national and local news sources. I'd also like to note this is still being reported in UK news, and there are still infrequent developments such as the following: https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/joy-morgan-mystery-still-surrounds-4920656Theprussian (talk) 16:43, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

What you are pointing to as new material is local coverage of new news on the investigation; that is not the same as the event having actual persistence. It is hard to find any historic significance in this, any lasting impact, of the sort that is called for in WP:NEVENT. I am restoring the tag. --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:55, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, in my view this article still qualifies as Notable. This was widely reported in the UK at the time with WP:GEOSCOPE nationwide reporting. Generally most UK murders in which there is nationwide reporting of the murder are to be considered notable, please see: Murder of Alice Gross, Murder of Breck Bednar, Death of Phoenix Netts and Murder of Becky Watts as comparable cases to this one. UK murders tend to receive large media coverage due to the size of the United Kingdom. This is particularly true with young people, the murder of young persons, particularly below the age of 21 is pretty much always notable in the UK due to the widespread coverage and reporting of the event.Theprussian (talk) 17:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Looking at the ones you cite, the only one of those that faced any notability discussion was Alice Gross, which faced its discussion before it was a murder, and thus doesn't make an example for the rule you state. Please see WP:DETAG for when you should remove a tag that has been placed; this is not one of those situations. --Nat Gertler (talk) 18:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

This still passes notability by some margin, as I have already mentioned. If you really think that this article is not notable. The you should consider PROD, but I can already tell you now that this would go as one would expect and end up being a "keep". However, I won't remove the tag again and will wait for a consensus to be built. Theprussian (talk) 12:49, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Why would I consider PROD? PROD is only for deletions that may be non-controversial, and you have already made it clear that you would consider that controversial. Did you mean AFD? You can "tell" me what the outcome would be, but I don't consider you a particular authority on such matters. --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:22, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ

There have been repeated efforts to invoke Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ in this article, despite there being no sources that cite any connection. I have removed (again) the links; do not reinsert without some sort of highly relevant source (which seems unlikely, as it was not the church that Morgan attended.) --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)