Category talk:Theatre by country

By country, or by nationality?

Please see the discussion of this at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 October 10. The question is should the by-country subcats of this category pertain to the topic of theatre within a national boundary regardless of the style (implying "theatre in nation" naming would be appropriate) or should these subcats pertain more broadly by culture or language (implying "nationality theatre" naming would be more appropriate). -- Rick Block (talk) 14:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• Note that Category:Plays by nationality are already by nationality. So are the categories for literature (the supercategory is being renamed to reflect this on CFD as we speak), architecture, films, television, music, musical groups, etc. Some of these have a firm consensus and others are still in the "yet to be debated" section. It seems like theatre best fits into this framework and should also be named by nationality, like the others. Personally I think this allows for a more natural categorization tree. Christopher Parham (talk) 21:31, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• Is this discussion about theatre buildings in geographic space, like Category:Theatres in Canada? or is it about the style of theatre, like Category:Canadian theatre? --maclean25 01:55, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
  • The second....there's already policy to organize the first as "in Country". Christopher Parham (talk) 03:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

• Count me in as another vote in favour of nationality-based categorization rather than by country. Christopher's covered pretty much everything. -The Tom 15:07, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

• OPPOSE - RETAIN all but Czechoslovakia. This country has changed its name to the Czech Republic, so we should also. As for the others: If I am going to search for a county on any topic, I would put in FINLAND, not FINNISH. I would use Argentina, not Argentine. You have to think about this from a new users POV when that person is SEARCHING for information. More people will search for the name of the COUNTRY than will not. You have to think of people in Peru, Angloa, Vietnam, the Czech Republic, and how they are going to search for information. WikiDon 16:25, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
  • If we were to consider the search function, perhaps "Theatre in Foo" would make a better introduction article than category, like say Theatre in Canada. Or would the opposite name make a better article, like Korean theatre? --maclean25 17:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Going by the "search function" argument, Category:French cuisine, Category:Chinese music and Category:Scottish people are all invalid. Nationality-based categories names are a fact of life on Wikipedia at the moment. -The Tom 19:54, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

• Well, well, well, now. It seems I have stirred up a hornets nest! I didn't mean to cause this much trouble, but if it brings some attention to Category:Theatre, I guess that's good. Since my first porposed renaming, my opinions have changed thanks to Christopher Parham. Having explored other culture related subjects, they seem to lean heavily towards being nationality based rather than country based. I propose renaming this category to Category:Theatre by nationality as well as renaming the sub-categories in order to make them consistant. It does, however, present a problem for Category:Theatre in the United States. Category:American theatre might work, though I have seen arguments that "American" is not really a nationality and indicates the continent (or really two continents), thus I have tried to avoid the usage of "American." Whatever the consensus, all I ask is that we be consitant here as I am fairly anal and seeing categories in Theatre that are named differently makes my head explode. :-) Cheers! *Exeunt* Ganymead 16:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I think it would be fine to keep it as is (w/o the abbreviation, i.e. "United States theatre") pending a later discussion of whether American or United States is preferable. Christopher Parham (talk) 18:19, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

What about Category:Theatre in the United Kingdom? Perhaps it should be "British theatre?" *Exeunt* Ganymead 20:23, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

• I would prefer to see the "in" form used, which makes it clearer that the categories cover all aspects of both dramatic literature and dramatic performance. British theatres often stage visiting productions of non-British plays, which is "Theatre in the United Kingdom", but not "British theatre". CalJW 22:12, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
  • It seems like this would dramatically expand the number of categories many articles are in, with the problem that the more categories an article is in the less useful these categories tend to become. For instnace, Romeo and Juliet is currently in only two very useful categories. Do you envision that if information is added on major performances and adaptations of the work in different countries, we would add Category:Theatre in the United States, Category:Theatre in France, etc.? If the visiting production happens to go on a world tour through 70 countries, is it included in all those categories? Christopher Parham (talk) 07:47, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree, the simple performance of a work in a country does not remove its nationality. Romeo and Juliet is still an English play whether it is performed in the United Kingdom or Iran. A Toulouse-Lautrec painting is still French if it is hanging in an American museum. Or Beethoven performed in South Africa is still German music. Even though with theatre, the presentation may be different depending on the country (Juliet wearing a burqua in Iran for example), the essence of the play is still English.*Exeunt* Ganymead 17:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)