Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/July 2012

Talk & archives for WP Japan
Project talk 2006 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2007 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2008 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2009 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2010 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2011 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2012 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2013 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2014 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2015 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2016 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2017 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2018 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2019 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2020 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2022 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2023 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Task force talk/archives ↔ Baseball (1) Bibliography (1) ↔ Cinema (1) ↔ CJKV (1) ↔ Districts and municipalities (1) Gaijin tarento (1) ↔ Military history (1, 2, 3) Music (1) Mythology (1, 2, 3, 4) Owarai (1) Politics (1) Prefectures (1) Royalty & nobility (1) Science & technology (1) Shinto (1) ↔ Tokyo (1) ↔ Transwiki ↔ = joint task force
Old notice board All of 2004 Jan–Mar 2005 Apr–Jun 2005 Jul–Oct 2005 Nov–Dec 2005 Jan–Feb 2006 Feb–May 2006 Jun–Dec 2006 Jan–Jun 2007 Jun 2007 – Sep 2008
Related talk/archives Anime and manga (index) Hello! Project (1) Pokémon (index, PAC (1, 2), PAC 2) Sumo (1, 2, 3) Square Enix (index) Tokusatsu (index) Trains (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Search the archives:
V·T·E

FAR nom of Iwo Jima flag raising

I have nominated Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. PumpkinSky talk 11:04, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

1909 Sugar scandal

This is slightly obscure but I am wondering if there was any coverage on EN or JP wikipedia of the 1909 sugar scandal involving the Dainippon Sugar Refining Co and several members of the Diet. I just came across it in researching an article and it seems to have been a pretty big deal with several politicians arrested.[1] Hack (talk) 04:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

The ja:WP article is ja:日本製糖汚職事件. Oda Mari (talk) 07:07, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Requested input regarding Japanese history

At Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion#Voxu, input has been requested from someone knowledgeable about Japanese history about the redirect Voxu which currently targets Mutsu province. Thryduulf (talk) 10:28, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Furigana

Hi, any further confirmation or comment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language#Furigana_in_newspapers_.28Japanese.29 would be very welcome. This is a troublesome and persistent myth (if indeed it is a myth), which I would like to eliminate from Wikipedia if everyone is confident it's incorrect. 86.179.117.144 (talk) 03:19, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

The help desk page has been archived to Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2012_June_28#Furigana_in_newspapers_.28Japanese.29 and some other user has deposited a response there. The JAWP article ja:常用漢字#法令における使用 mentions there is furigana rule (mandatory) for law codes, and highly recommended for official publications, but does not give any indication taht this furigana rule extends to newspaper publications. --Kiyoweap (talk) 04:03, 10 July 2012 (UTC).

Template:People of the Sengoku period

Project members might like to take a look at Template:People of the Sengoku period. Recently, one or more Anon-IP editors have made some fairly major changes to the template, without any explanation or discussion. Not necessarily "bad" changes, but as the template is applied to a large number of articles, the final result would benefit from additional eyes and input. Some things to consider: Should the list of notable samurai be culled? Should some be moved to the "major daimyo" section? Are the various categories (i.e. Daimyo, Emperors, Ninja) acceptable and in the right order? Boneyard90 (talk) 11:03, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

 Disagree I looked at the edit made by 42.224.46.103(talk) at 10:13, 4 July 2012.(+507) which represents most of the recent change. I don't think he deleted any names, just splintered off the "others" group into specific groups like "women", "ninjas", and "swordsmans" (sic). The edits he made seem perfectly sound to me. I also don't see any good reason to winnow down the list under "notable samurai". Most of these are familiar enough recurrent figures in Sengoku era dramatizations. I'm not particularly troubled by the order, but I suppose you can just eliminate the emperors from the template if it disturbs. I do have specific suggestion for additions to the list, but will make note of them under Template talk:People of the Sengoku period--Kiyoweap (talk) 06:00, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

? - Thank you for your attention and opinions, but I think you misunderstand: I am not looking for any agreement, and I am certainly not looking to militate support against the AnonIP editor, I was really only trying to call attention to a recently edited template which affects a great number of articles, as the template was not even marked with the WP:Japan banner until the day I posted the last comment. Again, thanks for your input.Boneyard90 (talk) 09:59, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Wrong time

Hi, the "Current time in Japan" field in the {{WikiProject Japan}} box is stale by random amounts ranging from hours to days, depending on which article you look at, and, presumably, the last time something was cached. 86.160.87.142 (talk) 20:35, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

See the discussion above. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:34, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I think this feature is so badly broken that it should probably be removed. Perhaps the other option would be to have a button for people to click to force an update, and only then show the date and time. See also my comment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:WikiProject_Japan#Wrong_time }}86.181.174.197 (talk) 11:11, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

the feature is not broken, badly or otherwise. There is nothing wrong with the code. The problem is your browser or your ISP (some of them cache things like that, and don't update the cached info all hat often. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 08:53, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree with 86.181.174.197. The Template:Time has "purge" entry which refresh the current time. The template Template:Japan current era date should be corrected as such or removed. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I've added a purge feature to the template so you can force your browser to behave properly. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 08:53, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick response. However I have a complaint about the name "purge". It is not the purpose of users to update the time but a measure to attain the purpose. I think it should be "update" or "reflesh". ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 09:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Even though there's no real reason to do so, I've updated it to state "refresh". It doesn't change anything, though. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:07, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Remove the so-called current time. Moscowconnection (talk) 18:37, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

It's been fixed so there's no longer a need.—Ryulong (竜龙) 19:23, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

The "refresh" option is definitely an improvement. However, the emphasis/impression is still that the current time is likely / ought to be correct as displayed, and that "refresh" is an optional feature that perhaps you can use when the page has been open in your browser for a while, for example. In fact, the time is (essentially) never correct when a page first opens, and is usually wildly wrong. So, rather than being the optional extra that the current presentation suggestions, "refresh" is normally essential. Really, it should be presented as "click this to get the time in Japan", however that is done. 81.159.111.3 (talk) 14:04, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I, too, can't regard it as having been fixed. I'm still for removal. Moscowconnection (talk) 20:35, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

The problem isn't the code. It's a problem with either your browser or your ISP caching the file. If they were doing it properly, you wouldn't ever run into the problem. There's no valid reason to remove it, especially since anyone with a technology-challenged browser or ISP can simply click the refresh link. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:22, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

It happens just the same when all local browser-cached files have been deleted. Whether it is an ISP caching issue or Wikipedia caching issue is hard to prove, but the fact that we are refreshing the page by using the "action=purge" command, that only Wikipedia understands, kind of suggests the latter, wouldn't you say? Also, I find it quite hard to believe that my ISP is caching obscure Wikipedia pages, such as Talk:Japanese particles, for up to two weeks or more. Plus it is a known fact that there is a design flaw in Wikipedia whereby it often serves stale pages under some circumstances, hence the need for the "action=purge" nonsense in the first place. 86.179.7.34 (talk) 21:58, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree with 81.159.111.3. The current time should be updated every time a page is loaded to a browser. The current function using Template:Time which updates the time only when the wikitexts are parsed by the server is hardly a user friendly interface. One of the best solution is to implement the function using a Java script like "UTCLiveClock" which can be set by Preference>Gadgets>Appearance>Add a clock. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:54, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Surely, it's Wikipedia cashing in action. It's done intentionally, to reduce the load on the Wikipedia servers. And the refresh button increases the load back absolutely needlessly. Moscowconnection (talk) 13:11, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Project page: Cleanup tasks/FAC and Far requests

"Cleanup tasks" on the project page, among other parts of the project page, look badly outdated. Could the Cleanup section drop the list, which will almost always be out of date, and state:

"Cleanup tasks are anything smaller or more specific than projects and anything that individuals can work on. You can work on files listed on the Cleanup listing page as well as articles in Category:Japan articles needing attention. Your help with these is appreciated as the list of things to do is very long."

Also, the section "FAC and FAR requests" looks as if it hasn't been updated in two years. Prburley (talk) 18:45, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

You are welcome to tidy them up. We appreciate your help. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:07, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

And I appreciate your answer Nihonjoe, and I see the list has been updated a bit already.

Further question: there are now 159 top importance articles. Shouldn't they all be on the "Top importance articles → FA" list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prburley (talk • contribs)

Yes, they should be. I also made this municipality guideline for you. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:38, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, that's simply brilliant. Thanks tremendously! Prburley (talk) 18:35, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I just modified (very slightly) the page you pointed to, so it only took about 30 minutes to work it up. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:42, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Changing Emperor in List of Emperors of ... articles to lower-case emperor and back again

There is a discussion here that people might like to join in. LittleBen (talk) 16:23, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Portal:Japan

I've added an edit notice at Template:Editnotices/Group/Portal:Japan so we can standardize content on the portal (especially in the anniversary section). This notice appears whenever any page in the portal is edited, including those not yet created. Please let me know if you have any questions. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

On a related note, I've got all the dates for the "On this date..." section done, except for a few in November and December. Once the dates are all finished, I'll be going back through each day of the year and making sure they have a decent number of entries on each one (some only have one entry), and I'll also be redoing the days which are in only Japanese. Any help is appreciated. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:31, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Sadamu Komachi

Can some-one who understands Japanese please find a reference for the death of Sadamu Komachi and add it to the article.--Racklever (talk) 06:53, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I had a look around, and the Japanese Wikipedia article cites his death to the Sankei Shimbun of July 18 2012. It doesn't give the article title or the author though, so I'm not sure if that would be enough for the English Wikipedia. (Maybe we could just assume it was in the obituaries?) I couldn't find any other reliable sources online, though it was reported on quite a few websites. I left a note on the talk page of the editor at the Japanese Wikipedia who added it - maybe that will do the trick. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 09:49, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I can't find any refs, either, not even on the major news sites. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:44, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Two blog posts mention an obituary in Sankei Shimbun: [2], [3] --Moscowconnection (talk) 00:32, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

This is a copy of the obituary of Sankei Shimbun dated July 18. It is not available online.

"小町定氏（こまち・さだむ＝元ゼロ戦搭乗員）15日、老衰のため死去、92歳。通夜は22日午後6時、葬儀・告別式は23日午前11時、東京都大田区西蒲田8の11の7、くらしの友蒲田総合斎場で。喪主は孫、紘之（ひろゆき）氏。 太平洋戦争の真珠湾攻撃など空母機動部隊による主要な作戦に参加した。"

―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 09:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I got a helpful reply from the note I left on the Japanese Wikipedia. It says that the article title is just "訃報" (romaji: fuhō; meaning: obituary), that the page number is "社会面" (romaji: shakaimen; meaning: society or local news page), and that the reporter is "産経新聞の記者" (romaji: Sankei Shimbun no Kisha; meaning: Sankei Shimbun reporter). This should be enough to provide a decent reference. Apparently, these sort of obituaries are aimed at the presidents of large companies and the relatives of the deceased, so it only lists the details of the funeral etc. and appears in small print at the bottom of the society pages. This is why the citation details are all so generic. The obituary says that he died on July 15, and that he was 92. It gives the cause of death as "老衰", but I'm not sure exactly how to translate that. JDic has it as "senility; senile decay; infirmity (through age)". Thoughts? — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 14:13, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I've added the reference to the article. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 14:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, it doesn't say the location of death, but it says the funeral is in Tokyo. Would it be reasonable to assume he died in Tokyo also? — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 14:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

"老衰" is "die of old age" or "die of natural causes". Oda Mari (talk) 18:40, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Mari. :) — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 10:13, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Cross-links between Japan and Portal:Japan

I feel that Wikipedia benefits if people are encouraged to explore. Thus Wikipedia would surely benefit from mutual (cross) links between Portal:Japan, Japan, and maybe also Outline of Japan, but surely it's best to get a consensus before going ahead and adding hatnote links. LittleBen (talk) 04:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Portal:Japan already links to Japan right on the main page. If you want to add links to the portal from Japan-related articles, you can add {{portal|Japan}} to the page in the "See also" section of the article. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 04:34, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

What the hell

I am not sure what the scope of the following articles is: Hell of Foxes and Wolves, Hell of Excrement and Hell of the Flaming Rooster. Being in Category:National Treasures of Japan and also their present text suggests that they are articles on parts of the Hell Scroll (Nara National Museum) in which case they should be merged with the scroll article. If they are about some general Buddhist concept, they should be expanded accordingly and the National Treasure category removed. bamse (talk) 07:04, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Based on what is in the stubs, it appears they are three of the Hell Scrolls (they are linked from the lead of the main Hell Scrolls article). Feel free to redirect them and delink them from that lead (or have the links jump you down the page in the same article). ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:33, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but you can't base anything much on the stubs. Did the artist invent them, or are they traditional concepts; Bamse asks the right question. This suggests the latter, but I doubt they need individual articles. Maybe merge and add a bit to Naraka (Buddhism), which seems the most relevant article. Johnbod (talk) 10:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

As they are three of the scrolls described in Hell Scroll (Nara National Museum), it makes perfect sense to merge what little information they have into that article, and then redirect them there. You can have additional (or the same) information at Naraka (Buddhism), but it doesn't make any sense to merge them there. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:14, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Refer you back to Bamse point about the scope above. Johnbod (talk) 15:14, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Looking for contributors for animal rights article

I am wondering if someone here would be interested in adding Japanese perspectives into the article of animal rights. I think current under representation of Japan in the article is unacceptable because vegetarianism, Buddhism, Taoism had long history in Japan. SSZvH7N5n8 (talk) 08:29, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Kaori Matsumoto

Please help expand this article.--Razionale (talk) 16:54, 30 July 2012 (UTC)