Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Backlog elimination drives/July 2023

Did I improve the article, or overdo it?

Newish editor here. I spent a few hours last night editing the article Kristine Bonnevie. Although it seemed accurate at a factual level, the OP was a nonnative speaker, and sources were in Norwegian. I added credible English-language sources, smoothed the language, and streamlined a cluttered infobox that repeated much of what was in the article. Now, however, I'm dithering about posting. I made a lot of changes, perhaps more than this event really intended, and I also worry that the OP will think I overstepped an editor's role and made myself an article creator/co-author. Also, I'm not a scientist, so some of my assessment of her contributions may need verification. Is there a way to get an opinion from a more experienced editor? Fortunaa (talk) 10:28, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Not unless your changes are in your sandbox; the advantage of real-time, on-wiki editing is that other editors can see what you've done. Please see WP:CE and Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/How to for an idea of what copyediting entails. No one owns an article, and foreign-language sources are acceptable here. Thanks for your help and all the best, Miniapolis 13:29, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! User:Fortunaa/sandbox It's here, but I'm grateful for your reply and I don't expect you to go over it.

Oh, and to be clear, I'm fine with foreign-language sources too, of course, but felt that since there are enough sources in English those should be there as well. This sandbox draft still way over-relies on one source... part of my finishing the edit will be to broaden/enrich the sources and do a more thorough literature search. Fortunaa (talk) 16:58, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

I took a look at the article in your sandbox, and it looks fine, and what seemed to me the worst offense, that of the overlong and choppy academic career section, you seem to have gone a long way toward solving. I echo what Miniapolis said, that it's best to make edits directly to the article. That way, if you're stepping out of bounds somehow, it will more likely to be seen and corrected before you waste effort. However, backlogged articles, which this is, as opposed to requests, are less likely to be closely watched by a critical audience. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:21, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

That's so helpful, thank you. I'm still learning what is vandalism and what isn't. Fortunaa (talk) 12:32, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

How do I find the oldest tags?

Hello, this is my first ever drive. I saw that oldest tags have a 50% bonus, and I want to avail myself of that. How do I find them? Is there a specific filter? 〜 Festucalex • talk 05:54, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Festucalex: Look through this category: Category:Wikipedia articles needing copy edit – and click on the oldest sub-category. Nythar (💬-🍀) 05:57, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Nythar: Oh yes, thanks. My problem is that I was looking at Category:All articles needing copy edit. 〜 Festucalex • talk 05:59, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Festucalex: This is how I usually find articles: On the right-hand side of the Drive's home page, there is a collapsible navigational box titled "Wikipedia articles needing copy edit". Where it says "Subtotals", click "show". For this drive, articles tagged from May, June, and July of 2022 receive the bonus. FYI, those tagged in July will likely be easiest (as the last ones left in a category often have special issues present). Wracking ^talk! 06:00, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I see Nythar beat me to the punch Wracking ^talk! 06:01, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Wracking: I don't know how I missed that. Thanks :) 〜 Festucalex • talk 06:05, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Festucalex: no problem, I hope you enjoy your first drive! Wracking ^talk! 06:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Can someone check my work?

I just finished Yellow-fruit nightshade and ended up only being able to fix the first sections. The section on medical uses for the plant is a mess of questionable/missing citations. I tagged the need for better medical sources, but don’t know if I should count the parts I did edit or just write it off as not currently fixable. ~ Argenti Aertheri^(Chat?) 06:43, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Argenti Aertheri: Your edits look good to me. Good job on the much-needed wikilinking.

Two notes on templates: For unit conversions, we often use {{Convert}}. {{Citation style}} seems more applicable in this case, as there are citations, but they are a mix of (deprecated) parenthetical citations and inline refs.

When there are sourcing issues with an article I'm copy editing (which there often are), I continue to edit the unsourced text. I use my discretion to remove unsourced content (such as contradictory wording, puffery, and that which may violate WP:BLP), and I leave tags when needed. (I use this assembly of navboxes if I can't find the right tag.)

Remember, a copy edit does not need to leave an article in perfect condition—but it should be readable, concise, and in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. In the words of the GOCE how-to, make the article "say what it means and mean what it says."

So, if this were a copy edit I was undertaking, in the spirit of WP:SOFIXIT I would fix the parenthetical citations to the extent possible (do they align with full references?) and continue to copy edit the section. If you decide not to edit the remaining section, just count the sections you did edit and leave a copy edit tag (or other relevant maintenance tag) in the remaining section, as needed. If you decide to leave the citations as is, add a {{Citation style}} tag to the article.

Hope this helps! Wracking ^talk! 07:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Crap, it’s worse than it looked, the section isn’t just a single questionable source, it’s lifted directly from said source. This isn’t bad writing, it’s plagiarism. This is my first time spotting such a large copyright violation, can you, or someone else, please check that I handled it correctly? ~ Argenti Aertheri^(Chat?) 18:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Argenti Aertheri: Good catch! I'm not super experienced with handling copyvio, but as far as I can tell, you've made the correct first steps in flagging the section and notifying the editor who added the content. I hope your next copy edits go smoother! Wracking ^talk! 18:59, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Smila

Does what I did to Smila (diff) count as a copy edit? I was originally going to just improve the tone, as it was tagged with {{Copy edit}}, but my edit quickly devolved into a major rewrite due to the lack of sources and poor formatting. The tone was improved... Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 16:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

It counts as a copy edit, even though I would call it a major trim, rather than a rewrite. You did trim the article from almost 1600 to just over 400 words, but the article seems to have gained four references in the process. I'm someone who errs on leaving text in, even if unreferenced, so I looked somewhat askance at what you did. However, I realize that what you did hews close to what is wanted: removal of uncited or trivial text, as well as making what remains more intelligible. Dhtwiki (talk) 22:22, 4 July 2023 (UTC) (edited 06:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC))

Could someone please review my work here?

Hello, I'm a new editor at Wikipedia. I signed up for the July 2023 GOCE Backlog Elimination Drive, and I picked this article randomly from the list. However, I see now that I should have read the article before committing to copy-editing it, because this article turned out to be a lot more challenging than I expected. I'm an American, the article is about a Indian TV show I've never watched, and the article was probably written by an Indian person. I'm trying to adhere to the rule about using Indian English because the article is India-related, but I can't be entirely sure which instances of strange grammar and word usage are truly wrong,and which instances are just peculiarities of Indian English. I tried my best, but I would really appreciate another editor's opinion. This is the article - Aapki Nazron Ne Samjha. Thank you in advance for your time and consideration. SmileySnail (talk) 20:40, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, and you seem to be doing fine. Copyediting isn't necessarily easy, and you shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I'm also an American, and Indian English seems to be based on British English. All the best, Miniapolis 23:22, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice and I'm glad you think I've done fine. I took one more look at the article after reading your message and made a few more alterations. I think now I have done all I can for that article, so I'll remove the "GOCE in use" template, and go on to another article. SmileySnail (talk) 02:34, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Giving bonus for August 2022 backlog articles

@Miniapolis and Zippybonzo: – There are now only 15 articles left in the July 2022 backlog, and we're little more than halfway through the drive. We should add August 2022 articles to those receiving the 50% bonus. Dhtwiki (talk) 21:27, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Agree. All the best, Miniapolis 21:59, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that sounds good, Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 03:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

OK. I've added August to the project page. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

An absolutely ridiculous question

Let's say, hypothetically, that everyone reduced the backlog so much, all the category pages were deleted and every single request was answered. However, the Backlog Elimination Drive still has five days until it ends. Would the drive end early, or would it keep going? Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 22:40, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

About 300 to 400 new copy edit tags are added every month, or 10 to 15 per day. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

We seemed to be on the verge of doing just that several years ago, but it did not last. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:38, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Adding on to my already impossible situation, let's say everyone mutates, giving them the power to see into the future; they see articles needing to be copyedited before they're even tagged with the notice. Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 06:07, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

I remember a time, around 2015 or 2016 I think (you can check the REQ archives), when the Requests page was down to three open requests and we all went for a nice cuppa tea; ah, happy days, it hasn't happened since then! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 04:01, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Wow. Just wow. Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 04:20, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

7 December 2015, courtesy of the WP time machine. It was actually two unaccepted requests and six overall! :) Cheers, Baffle☿gab 04:48, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

That is even better that I could have imagined. To think that there were over 9,000 articles back in 2010... Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 04:57, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Question on Gold Star Award

Is the Gold Star Award given to a single editor who has, in a single month, placed first on all categories on the leaderboard? Or is it given to all users who have placed first on any category. Dawkin Verbier (talk) 16:02, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

One for each category. See this editor's talk page for an example. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:40, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Ah, so in this case, I would actually receive all of the awards listed. Thank you for clarifying. Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 04:21, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Copyedit needs a check

Article: The Valleys (series 2)#Storylines
Section before I've copyedited: here

The section I've linked above had some problems, including:

• That some details were trivial (mentions pointless filler material, the whole show is basically X kisses Y or X does this sort of prank to Y)
• That the language here was quite peculiar ("there's a clear atmosphere")

I've copyedited the page to shorten the section, but I feel like this may need to be checked by an expert because I may have rushed it. Thanks, Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 04:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC).

How terrible. The show, not the copy editing. You've trimmed the "Storylines" section by about half, which is good, but there are things that need better explaining.

• "...the whole group is invited out to do some modelling, and Nicole to style." Nicole styles their clothes, which is made clear later on.
• "... she realises there's food in her hair extensions..." the food having come from a food fight, whose description has been left out (a real condiment-throwing one, too, including the monkey noises mentioned in the original).
• "...she doesn't have feelings for Chidgey and tries to pull a boy..." where what exactly "pull a boy" means is a tantalizing mystery to me (one can "pull a girl", too, according to the original).

This is an MTV show set in Wales. I would call it a Welsh Real World, but with a level of vulgarity that makes the American version seem tame, and which requires a content warning, in what I assume is Welsh. How far we've come from How Green was My Valley. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:32, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Checked, and this is by far the worst reality show I've ever come across. Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 15:14, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Is there a limit to how many articles I can check at once?

See question above. Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 01:26, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Also, just to be sure, does copyediting only encompass fixing an article's style (layout, contractions, etc.) and grammar (punctuation, language, and prose)? Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 01:29, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I didn't see where you asked a question regarding a limit on articles edited concurrently. I couldn't find such a limit, although I remember taking more than one being discouraged, and I myself don't copyedit multiple articles at once. However, I can see how editing related articles at the same time could be efficient. As for what copy editing encompasses, beyond what is stated at the how-to page, I would say that often finding, citing, or (re-)translating references is necessary to complete your task. That can involve a *lot* of work, but if it's necessary to clarify the article and is doable, then I would say that that becomes part of copy editing. 05:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhtwiki (talk • contribs) (edited 05:23, 28 July 2023 (UTC))

If by "check out", you mean "mark as  Working on the drive page", I strongly recommend listing just one page at a time as  Working. The same goes for tagging articles with templates like {{GOCEinuse}}. When you are done with that one article, list it as  Completed on the drive page and then list or tag another article. There is almost never a need to gather a bunch of articles as if they were a scarce resource. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:43, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Ah. Sorry. I got so caught up reducing the backlog that I completely ignored this rule. Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 17:47, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

This guy deserves the 5K+ barnstar

I want to give my honest praise to @Dawkin Verbier for reading so fast and clearing the backlog of 5K+ articles. Honestly, I have no idea how they manage to do that within like a day. Cheers, Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 16:43, 29 July 2023 (UTC)