Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Figure Skating

Latest comment: 1 hour ago by Henni147 in topic Article assessment update
WikiProject iconFigure Skating NA‑class
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Skater biographies latest changes – Mar 29, 2024 edit

The respective discussions have been moved to archive 10 and 11. Please do not modify the framed section.

Infobox edit

Example
Full nameFull name
Native nameNative name
Other namesName 1, Name 2, ...
BornDate
Place
DiedDate
Place
HometownHometown
Height1.72 m (5 ft 8 in)
Figure skating career
Country
Discipline
Partner
  • Current partner
  • Partner 2 (2012–2016)
  • Partner 1 (2010–2012)
CoachCurrent coach or team
Skating clubCurrent club, location
Began skating2004
Competitive2008–2018
Professional2019–2023
RetiredAugust 5, 2023
Highest WS2nd (20142016)
Medal record
Event      
Olympic Games 0 0 0
Olympic Games – Team event 0 0 0
World Championships 0 0 0
European Championships 0 0 0
Four Continents Championships 0 0 0
Grand Prix Final 0 0 0
World Team Trophy 0 0 0
National Championships 0 0 0
World Junior Championships 0 0 0
Junior Grand Prix Final 0 0 0
Youth Olympic Games 0 0 0
Medal list
  Olympic Games  
World Championships
European Championships
Four Continents Championships
Grand Prix Final
World Team Trophy
National Championships
World Junior Championships
Junior Grand Prix Final
  Youth Olympic Games  

New parameters

  • |discipline=: select between Men's singles, Women's singles, Pair skating, and Ice dance. If a skater has changed disciplines, they get listed in REVERSE order from last to first, with the period added in parentheses from the second entry onwards.
  • |years_competitive=: period using the format 2010–2018 or 2010–present with an en dash (not a hyphen).
  • |years_professional=: period using the format 2010–2018 or 2010–present.
  • |highest_WS=: highest career world standing, using the format 1st (20182019).
  • |medalrecord=: to be combined with new medal template {{Figure skating infobox medals}} and module {{FS medal}}.

Important content changes

  • |hometown=: should only be included if different from birthplace.
  • |coach=: the CURRENT coach or team gets listed for ACTIVE skaters only.
  • |skating club=: the CURRENT main skating club gets listed for ACTIVE skaters only, using the format "skating club, location".
  • |retired=: only to be used for skaters who retired from skating ALTOGETHER, both competitive AND professional level, naming the year or official announcement date (e.g. "June 25, 2023" for Johnny Weir).

Obsolete parameters that will no longer be displayed

  • |residence=: If the residence of a skater is notably different from the birth place or hometown, that information should be mentioned in the prose part of the article, supported by reliable secondary sources.
  • |spouse=: Spouses should be mentioned in the "private life" section, supported by RELIABLE secondary sources (no tabloids).
  • |formercountry=: to be merged into the |country= parameter, listed in REVERSE order from last to first, with the period added in parentheses from the second entry onwards.
  • |formerpartner=: to be merged into the |partner= parameter, listed in REVERSE order from last to first, with the period added in parentheses from the second entry onwards.
  • |formercoach=: to be moved to the prose part of the article, supported by reliable secondary sources.
  • |(former)choreographer=: to be added to program list, supported by reliable secondary sources.
  • |traininglocations=: to be merged into the |skating club= parameter, using the format "skating club, location".
  • |former skating club= + |formertraininglocations=: to be moved to the prose part of the article, supported by reliable secondary sources.
  • Full world standing and season's best lists are no longer listed on a skater's biography page. Only the highest career world standing is mentioned in the infobox, using |highest_WS=.
  • ISU personal best scores are no longer listed in the infobox. They are added at the top of the detailed results section, using the template {{Figure skating personal bests}}.

Statistics sections edit

Last edited by Henni147 (talk) 08:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

New templates for ice shows edit

Hi everyone!

I have been working on Hanyu's five new ice show articles lately. In the course of the page split, I have created two templates that might be valuable for other ice show articles as well:

  • Infobox ice show
    I realized that the general infobox for events is not very suitable for ice shows, so I created one with parameters that fit our purpose better. You can find examples of its usage here: Gift, Repray Tour, Yuzuru Hanyu Notte Stellata.
  • Navigation box ice show
    I compiled all ice shows with existing articles on EN-Wiki in one navigation box and added it at the bottom of each article. I sorted the shows by type, but feel free to make changes if you have better solutions.

Henni147 (talk) 18:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Listed medals in the infobox edit

Hi everyone, A question is why remove WTT medals in infoboxes? World Team Trophy is a figure skating team competition sanctioned by the International Skating Union. Why we can't putting medal informaton in infoboxes? I'm strongly suggest that we need add it. Thank you. Stevencocoboy (talk) 05:37, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Extended content
See above. The decision was made to remove the WTT from infoboxes. Bgsu98 (Talk) 06:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I think I need open a discuss to talk again and request add WTT medals in infoboxes. Thank you. Stevencocoboy (talk) 07:05, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Editor120918756, Henni147, Bgsu98, and Figureskatingfan: Hi everyone, World Team Trophy is a figure skating team competition sanctioned by the International Skating Union, nature same as Olympic, World Championships, Grand Prix Final and Four Continents Championships. I'm strongly suggest that we need add it. Thank you. Stevencocoboy (talk) 07:17, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

I just checked that Wikimedia Commons has FINALLY (!!!) managed to make tables collapsible in mobile view as well! The collapsing issue was the main reason why we decided to remove WTT medals from the infobox. Now that this technical issue has been resolved, I actually support the suggestion to put the WTT medals back. Henni147 (talk) 07:48, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: Totally agree with you. Seeing Asian Games can add it but World Team Trophy did not include are strangely because World > Asian. Stevencocoboy (talk) 07:55, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Agree. I was a bit surprised about the Asian Games, too. There are many top skaters like Yuzuru Hanyu, Yuna Kim or Mao Asada who never participated in that competition. However, I was told that it's an important event in Asian countries, like a small Olympics. So I don't mind if it's added as well. Henni147 (talk) 09:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

UPDATE: Since Wikimedia got the collapsing issue for tables in mobile view fixed, I added the World Team Trophy to {{Figure skating infobox medals}} and {{FS medal}}. I see no other plausible reason to skip it now. Henni147 (talk) 10:13, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Since we’re no longer worried about the list of medals being too long, I’d long to add the respective national championships. Those are certainly more noteworthy and prestigious than the WTT. Bgsu98 (Talk) 12:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: Thanks a lot. I'll add it back now. Stevencocoboy (talk) 02:44, 26 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Bgsu98 and Stevencocoboy: I don't mind adding medals for nationals either. I suggest to abbreviate them with NC for "national championships" and JNC for "junior national championships". Do you agree with that solution?
One thing that bothers me a bit is that "total" row at the bottom of the medal count. Since the table doesn't include all competitions, that "total" can be misleading for casual readers. If it was a medal count for Super Slam events only, that would kind of make sense, but our current list includes other competitions as well. So this "total" has no particular value or meaning in its current form imo. Would you agree to remove it? Henni147 (talk) 10:04, 27 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
For sure, get rid of that. Bgsu98 (Talk) 10:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Henni147, do you want to add the National Championships to Template:Figure skating infobox medals? I'm not sure about adding the Junior National Championships. Additionally, I'm wondering if only the Gold Medal in this particular event is noteworthy. Bgsu98 (Talk) 20:23, 27 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: Agree but I think national event should not be adding in medal infobox. Stevencocoboy (talk) 04:47, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Bgsu98: I don't suggest because there're many national Championships in different countries. Template:Figure skating infobox medals should be list the most important and international competition in figure skating, like olympic, world Championships, four Continents Championships, grand Prix Final, world Team Trophy. Stevencocoboy (talk) 04:45, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Bgsu98 and Stevencocoboy: So if I got you right, no national medals in the infobox then? It's odd to list gold medals only because that would make casual readers think that the skater has only won golds and no other medals at Nationals imo. So either add all colors or none.
Note: I will remove the "total" row from the template as mentioned above.
Note 2: I noticed that we changed "Olympic Games" to "Winter Olympics". While this works well for the team event and Youth Olympics, it might be a bit odd for skaters who competed at the 1908 Summer Olympics like Ulrich Salchow. Should we put Olympic Games back for that case?
Henni147 (talk) 08:58, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Ah, that’s a good point. I will revert the Winter Olympics to Olympic Games.
No, I think the National Championships should be added, and yes, G/S/B. As for National Junior Championships, I’m on the fence. Bgsu98 (Talk) 09:49, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I have reverted the Winter Olympics to Olympic Games.
Even ISU lists the National Championships on their table of major competitions on each skater's profile page. The list includes Olympics, Worlds, Europeans, Four Continents, Junior Worlds, and Nationals (in that order). Bgsu98 (Talk) 13:21, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Bgsu98: Okay, then let's add senior nationals results and maybe skip junior nationals? Henni147 (talk) 20:06, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Let's start with that. I recommend linking the competitions to the general championship page (and not the individual event; ie. "U.S. Figure Skating Championships" v. "2024 U.S. Figure Skating Championships"). I'm not the expect on building templates, but maybe start with the U.S. and Canada, and I can replicate the template with additional countries as needed. Bgsu98 (Talk) 20:08, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Bgsu98: Good point. I totally forgot about the linking. My suggestion is that in the case of Nationals we do the linking manually to make sure that we don't exceed the allowed template transclusion size.
One more thing: I put the row for Olympic team medals back to distinguish them from individual medals in the medal count table. The FS team events are no relays but a separate discipline and should be marked as such. Henni147 (talk) 20:21, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I just left a comment on the template talk page about why the team event doesn't need to be a separate line item. Bgsu98 (Talk) 20:24, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
If you can give me an example of how I would enter the Nationals on both tables (the medal count and specific list), I would appreciate it. Bgsu98 (Talk) 20:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I can update both templates with an example. Henni147 (talk) 20:33, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Summary edit

The collapse function of the medal list now also works in mobile view, which allows a longer list (not much though because the templates have a large transclusion size). For that reason, the (senior) National Championships (NC) and World Team Trophy (WTT) have been added to the {{Figure skating infobox medals}} template.

Re-discuss Asian Winter Games
@ErnestKrause, Figureskatingfan, Bgsu98, and Stevencocoboy:

  • The Asian Winter Games are currently the only listed event in the infobox which are restricted to one region with no equivalent for other continents like "European Winter Games" or "American Winter Games" etc.
  • Many renowned Asian skaters like Yuzuru Hanyu, Yuna Kim or Mao Asada never participated in that event, although it was held multiple times during their senior careers.

Considering these aspects, I'd like to discuss whether we should keep that event in the infobox or only list it in the competitive highlights and detailed results section. I remember that the main argument for its inclusion was the high importance in Asia (like a small Olympics). Personally, I feel that this event doesn't belong to the infobox, particularly for the first reason. However, I do not want to make any decision without everyone's consent. Henni147 (talk) 19:41, 29 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Get rid of it. Bgsu98 (Talk) 19:57, 29 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I agree, it should be removed. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:44, 29 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you very much for your quick replies. I will skip this event then. Henni147 (talk) 20:52, 29 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Re-discuss World Team Trophy
@Henni147, Figureskatingfan, and Bgsu98: Hi everyone, sorry my eng are badly because I'm from Hong Kong. In the order of WTT medals in {{Figure skating infobox medals}} is behind than National Championships is make me shocked because World > National. Remember World Team Trophy is an international figure skating team competition sanctioned by the ISU. As the meaning is same as Olympic team event. I'll change it if no other plausible reason. Thanks. Stevencocoboy (talk) 06:01, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Agree with flipping the order of events. Henni147 (talk) 08:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Re-discuss National Championships
@Henni147, Figureskatingfan, and Bgsu98: Hi everyone, I'm open another a new topic. In my opinion, national Championships ARE NOT international figure skating competition and NOT sanctioned by the ISU which is unrepresentative. The medals in the infobox should be list the most international & important competition in figure skating, like olympic, world Championships, four Continents Championships, grand Prix Final, world Team Trophy(both in senior and junior). However, the main effect in national Championships are choosing national team members only, not specialist in others. The national Championships in medal infobox only list in senior but not include junior also make us confused. I'm suggest that the national information list in the detail results only enough and remove it in the medal infobox. Thanks. Stevencocoboy (talk) 07:05, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Since there was such strong consensus about listing Nationals, I didn't mind to add it. But I agree with the points above and support a removal if others agree as well. Note: I am not a fan of adding junior nationals. The senior lists are so long already for many. With juniors, skaters like Javier Fernández or Carolina Kostner would have 12–13 medals listed. Henni147 (talk) 08:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
The World Team Trophy is neither important nor prestigious, and in my opinion, does not belong, but here we are. As I mentioned above, the National championship is prestigious enough that the ISU lists it on a skater’s profile along with the Olympics, Worlds, Europeans, 4CC, and Junior Worlds. They do not list the GP/JGP Finals, which we also list. Bgsu98 (Talk) 08:26, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
In the ISU bios, The GPF is listed along with other GP results in the second table. No one with a right mind would say that a medal at the Grand Prix Final shouldn't be listed in the infobox. It has been named a Golden Slam event by the ISU on their official website (Hanyu (JPN) completes Golden Slam of Figure Skating with first Four Continents title) and a Grand Slam or Super Slam event by countless renowned international news outlets, which is more than sufficient to meet Wikipedia's notability criteria. Just forget about the entire comment. >_<
Personally, I would only add Golden Slam/Super Slam events with a medal count in the infobox and nothing else. But I agree that Nationals are deemed important by the ISU and also by news outlets, which justifies an addition. Henni147 (talk) 09:18, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I wasn't advocating at all about removing the GP/JGP finals; they absolutely should be included. I was simply stressing the importance that the ISU places on the national championships as well. Bgsu98 (Talk) 09:21, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Bgsu98: Okay, I'm relieved that it was just a misunderstanding :D Henni147 (talk) 13:37, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Bgsu98: I didn't mentioned that national championships is neither important but usually only add world & international competition in infobox. Actually in other sports, I couldn't see any national events in it. But if other users disagree it, it's fine and just my opinion. Thanks. Stevencocoboy (talk) 02:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Note on country or discipline changes edit

Yesterday, I realized how long and complicated the template's source code is if we sort the medals by discipline or represented country. My suggestion is the following simplification:

  • Make the use of the parameters |country= and |discpline= in the {{Infobox figure skater}} mandatory on all skaters' biographies. Country and discipline changes get listed there with exact years/seasons.
  • Sort medals in the medal list by event only. The discipline is already listed next to each medal and country changes are noted in the infobox above.
I believe these should still be sorted by country, but it's not necessary to specify the discipline since that is clearly notated off to the right of each medal. Bgsu98 (Talk) 09:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I managed to find an economic solution to group the medals by represented countries. Sadly, it's not possible to collapse all medals together. They have have to be collapsed for each country separately. Is that okay? Henni147 (talk) 13:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
That looks fine to me! Bgsu98 (Talk) 13:35, 30 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Without medal count
Representing   Canada
World Championships
  2021 Stockholm Ice dance
Representing   France
  Olympic Games  
  2018 Pyeongchang Singles
World Championships
  2019 Saitama Singles
With medal count
Event      
Olympic Games 0 0 2
World Championships 1 2 5
Medal list
representing   Canada
World Championships
  2021 Stockholm Ice dance
  2022 Montpellier Ice dance
Medal list
representing   France
  Olympic Games  
  2014 Sochi Singles
  2018 Pyeongchang Singles
World Championships
  2015 Shanghai Singles
  2018 Milan Singles
  2019 Saitama Singles
  2014 Saitama Singles
  2016 Boston Singles
  2017 Helsinki Singles

Article assessment edit

Hi all,

As previously promised, I've started the process of improving how assessments are done for figure skating articles. It's similar to what other projects do. WikiProject Military History probably has the most extensive assessment procedure. I suggest that we use them as a model; see Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment. I also suggest that we use their A-Class Assessment as a guide as well. One of the most frustrating things about working on figure skating articles is that the peer-review system here at Wikipedia depends upon non-experts, which means that we often have to explain the basics of the sport and defend our policies and procedures over and over to reviewers. I recently ran into this issue again at DYK. I strongly believe that setting up our review system, as other projects have done, will decrease our frustration, increase the amount of high-quality articles and lists about figure skating, and motivate more editors to create and improve articles and lists.

To that end, I've created an article assessment table in one on my sandboxes: User:Figureskatingfan/Sandbox 3, based upon existing tables for all WikiProjects and upon the one Military History uses. Please make improvements as you see fit.

There are a few points of discussion I'd like to bring up now:

1. Examples: I tried to choose a wide variety of recently-promoted articles. Please replace them if you think of better choices.

2. How do we want A-class reviews to be conducted? I see two options:

a. A more formal process, like WP Military History (Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/A-Class FAQ, with a coordinator elected regularly. Military History elects their coordinator yearly.

b. A less formal one; for example, an article would be promoted by consensus of at least three reviewers. Other WikiProjects handle their assessments this way. I'd support a more informal process, since I'm not sure that our project is large enough to handle a more formal one. If we went this way, we'd set up a way for articles and lists to be nominated, much like how GAN and FAC is done. I'm happy to set things up.

3. We would need to set up a detailed criteria specific to A-Class figure skating articles and lists, including our requirements for sources and tables, and to ensure that our style sheet/MOS is followed. Again, I'm happy to lead this endeavor.

Please discuss, and add discussion points I've missed. I think that improving our assessment process would make our lives so much easier and as I've already stated, increase the quality of our articles. Thanks for the consideration. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:06, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Figureskatingfan: Thank you very much for your effort to prepare a proper quality assessment guide for figure skating! I was thinking about compiling something similar because it's very needed indeed. I will go through your sandbox this weekend and take a closer look at the selected examples.
One thing that we should pay more attention to in the reviews is the correct use of figure skating terminology. The most common mistakes I noticed are the wrong capitalization of element names or wrong terms such as "presentation mark" instead of "program component score", "combination jump" instead of "jump combination" etc. We have to check our MOS guidelines and update them if necessary.
My suggestion is that for FA/FL and A-class reviews (maybe GA as well), there should be at least one member from WP:FIGURE who
  1. is familiar with MOS:FIGURE
  2. is familiar with figure skating as a sport in general
  3. has contributed major parts to at least one figure skating article of FA/FL or A-class since 2020.
This member should read the nominated article at least once before its final promotion and check if the article meets our specific quality criteria for figure skating. I don't think that a coordinator election is necessary, but we can promote a group of 5–6 project members to so-called figure skating-reviewers who meet the criteria above. And if there is an ongoing nomination, we ping that group with min. one volunteer to do the check. What do you think about this solution? Henni147 (talk) 10:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: thanks for your response. I agree that it's important that our reviews should require the use of correct figure skating terminology. Using your examples, our MOS discusses the capitalization of element names, but doesn't define the other terms you list. That's an easy fix. We should go through the MOS and make sure that it doesn't miss anything.
I agree with you about the requirements for reviewers, although we wouldn't be able to insist that GA and FA/FL reviewers follow them because they're open to any and all reviewers. For A-Class reviewers, we can do anything we want, including making the criteria for figure skating articles more stringent than the other peer review systems. Our reviewers need to be figure skating experts who come to a consensus about the article or list passing to A-Class, which we, like other WikiProjects, would develop. We can create a "Participants" list of potential reviewers, too. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk)
I disagree that there should be one "checker", and that consensus should be enough to promote an article or list. If the three (or more) reviewers give it a SUPPORT vote, then one of them should be able to promote it. Thoughts? Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Figureskatingfan: Yes, my wording was a bit bad. Sorry! My suggestion for the promotion to A-class is:
  1. Minimum of 3 support votes by general reviewers
  2. Among them minimum 1 support vote by a figure skating reviewer (to make sure that content and terminology is correct)
It would be bad if three reviewers gave their support, when the article still has FS-specific mistakes. I hope that this makes more sense ;) I know that FA/FL and GA promotion have their own rules. However, I still think that WP:FIGURE should have an eye on ongoing nominations and check if the articles meet the FS-specific criteria. No article with issues in terminology or content should be promoted to featured class imo. I can help to brush up the MOS regarding terminology this weekend. Henni147 (talk) 08:42, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147, nothing to apologize for. I agree with everything you just said. Today, I will start creating our WikiProject Figure Skating A-Class criteria. Thanks. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 15:36, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Everyone, I've completed a draft of a potential Quality scale and criteria for A-Class figure skating articles and lists, here in my sandbox: User:Figureskatingfan/Sandbox 3. Please look it over and make changes and additions as you see fit. I'm curious to see what you think. Thanks, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:15, 31 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you so much for your effort! I will take a look and try to give a detailed response this week. Henni147 (talk) 12:25, 1 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Figureskatingfan: I have read the sandbox content now, and I don't really have much to add. The review criteria for A-class are concise and complete. I also support the content and example selection in the assessment the table. Well done! Thank you very much for your hard work. Henni147 (talk) 08:32, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147, thanks so much for your kind words. We're not in any big hurry to implement this, so I'll wait the normal seven-day period (until 11 April) for more feedback before I set up the needed pages for it. If no one else chimes in by then, I'll get the ball rolling. It's kinda exciting!
Also, I noticed that you added some content to our MOS, good work. I feel, though, that we should add sources, since it wasn't from the original U.S. Figure Skating source. Would you mind providing the sources, like ya know, where you got all that cool info? ;) Thanks. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:28, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Figureskatingfan: Yes. For better overview, I decided to group all the terms by type in tables with proper references. My main sources are the current ISU TP Handbook, SOV table and PCS chart. I hope to finish at least the first half today and do the rest tomorrow ;) Henni147 (talk) 16:55, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

One exciting note: I discovered that the Washington Post has cited SkatingScores.com: [1]. I think, this a very good evidence for the reliability and notability of that website. Henni147 (talk) 18:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Henni147 you really like those tables, doncha? ;) Very nice work. I can help with hunting down the exact refs, if you like; just let me know. Very cool Post article; I wonder if they've updated it since Illia. Ya know, I'm going to add that bit of trivia to the MOS. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Figureskatingfan: Yes, I really love tables because they are such a powerful tool to visually structure statistics and explanations. I wished that the HTML/Wiki source code for tables was a bit easier, but that's how it is.
I will try to add sources for as many official terms as possible. When I have completed my additions today (tomorrow at the latest), it would be great if you took another look and helped looking up missing sources. Thank you very much in advance! Henni147 (talk) 07:58, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147 Tables have always been my Kryptonite, especially in the days before Visual Editor. It's still hard for me, so I'm glad you're around with your expertise, especially since figure skating needs tables. We all have our individual strengths and we fill in for each other; that's the best part of this collaborative project. Be happy to look over your great work. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Adaptation of the new "FS skater"-template edit

For the full template documentation, see {{FS skater}}. Note that the previous template name "{{FS medalist}}" can still be used as well.

I have edited the following pages today so as to incorporate the new format style with regards to pairs and dance teams:

Let me know how they look! Bgsu98 (Talk) 19:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Bgsu98: Looks good to me! Now that I think about it ... "FS medalist" is not a very ideal template title, since it's also used for skaters and teams who didn't medal. Totally didn't think of that. Henni147 (talk) 08:38, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Oops. 😂 Bgsu98 (Talk) 09:57, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Bgsu98 and Henni147: What's wrong?Why suddenly changing the new format style with regards to pairs and dance teams?What's problem with the past version?Stevencocoboy (talk) 06:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Stevencocoboy: It's mainly a format issue. We should generally avoid using slashes when naming skaters if possible. Also, placing their names below each other keeps the tables more compact in width, which is essential for proper display on mobile devices and other narrow screens. Henni147 (talk) 06:48, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: Seeing ISU official results in Pairs and Ice Dance are using「 / 」not 「and」or alternate lines. It feels strangeness.Stevencocoboy (talk) 06:59, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
The ISU uses various formatting styles that do not confine with Wikipedia's Manual of Style, so we have to make compromises. According to MOS:SLASH, spaced slashes should only be used for the separation of items "that include at least one internal space (the NY 31 east / NY 370 exit), where for some reason use of a slash is unavoidable". In our case, the use of a slash is avoidable, so we better omit it. Henni147 (talk) 07:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: Okay it's my opinion. Thanks for your help. Stevencocoboy (talk) 07:27, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Stevencocoboy: Personally, I don't mind using slashes, but I know how picky the reviewers for FA or FL class can be, and it would be bad if an article didn't pass the review because of something like this. I still remember what a big fuss they made about the formatting of the old detailed results tables. We had to change almost every table cell to get a pass for FL class. Henni147 (talk) 07:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: Thanks for the answer. Also your attitude are better than Bgsu98, honestly he only reverted and said that my edit was disruptive. It was unbelievable. Stevencocoboy (talk) 08:11, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Bgsu98: I gave the template the more general title "FS skater" now. The old title "FS medalist" is still working, though, so you don't have to rename everything. Henni147 (talk) 07:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

I didn't know if templates allowed for redirects; I'm glad to see it does. Bgsu98 (Talk) 07:25, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

New milestone in figure skating edit

Usually, I don't write any content-related stuff here on the project talk page, but this one may not be reported by the media in its full scope:

Today at the final stop of the Repray Tour, Yuzuru Hanyu performed a no-mistake solo show of two hours length with 12 programs and a choreographed 6-minute warm-up, adding up to almost 50 minutes net skating time. The technical content included 28 jumps (among them six quads, five triple Axels, and another 11 triples, all clean) as well as 20 spins, five competitive step and choreo sequences and another 22 field moves. One of the jump elements was a 4T+1Eu+3S+1Eu+3S combination, which has never been performed in competition. To put it into perspective: the technical content equals about three full free skates in men's singles.

I expect Japanese magazines and newspapers to publish some content summaries by Tuesday at the latest, but I don't know how much they will go into detail, so I wanted to compile the technical statistics here at least.

@Figureskatingfan, Bgsu98, and Stevencocoboy: In the case that we get proper reports by reliable secondary sources, I feel that this exceptional feat deserves to be mentioned somewhere outside Hanyu's own series. I plan to create an article about professional figure skating (which is long overdue anyways), but it may also be suitable for the History of figure skating. What do you think? Henni147 (talk) 12:51, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Henni147: as impressive as this accomplishment is, the information doesn't really fit in any existing articles other than Hanyu's bio. It may fit into an article about professional figure skating, which I agree should exist. I'm not sure it would be appropriate for the history article, which should be improved as well and something on my own list. That's my opinion about it, anyway. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: Sorry lately to response. I totally agree Figureskatingfan opinion. you can create an article about professional figure skating and add in the history of figure skating include magazines and newspapers source. Stevencocoboy (talk) 05:05, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Figureskatingfan: Thank you very much for your reply! Then let's limit this specific bit of info to the articles about pro skating and the Repray Tour. Thankfully, two newspapers have reported on it with technical details, so we have reliable sources.
Note: What might be suitable for the history article is the short fact that Hanyu was the first skater to produce a solo ice show. Guinness World Records may officially recognize it in their records soon, which would underline its encyclopedic notability. What do you think? Henni147 (talk) 07:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147, if that fact can be supported, you're right it should be added to the history article or even the general Figure skating article (another one my list), of course. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Henni147: Totally agree. You can added it in history article. Stevencocoboy (talk) 05:09, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you very much for your replies!
@Figureskatingfan: These two English sources mention Prologue as the first solo ice show production in figure skating among others. They might be useful, when adding this info to the articles about figure skating and FS history:
  • "Figure skating hero Hanyu Yuzuru to start gaming-inspired 'RE_PRAY' solo ice tour in Saitama". International Olympic Committee. Lausanne. September 4, 2023. Archived from the original on September 4, 2023.
  • Matsubara, Takaomi (January 12, 2023). "Going Pro: Hanyū Yuzuru Reinvents What It Means to Be a Figure Skater". Nippon Communications Foundation. Minato, Tokyo. Archived from the original on January 12, 2023.
The first source also mentions the ice show audience record of 35,000 at Tokyo Dome, while the second one has some great information about amateur and professional skating in general. I will look up more reliable secondary sources, when brushing up the single show articles to GA class. Henni147 (talk) 15:53, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

108.26.172.49 edit

108.26.172.49 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has made over a thousand changes to skaters' articles about programs, usually removing info and altering birthdates. Since some of the birthdates proved to be wrong and they are providing no edit summaries, I rolled back what I could, 722 edits in all. Perhaps some of them are good, but it's going to take a group effort to truly scrutinize all of their edits and clean up articles where I couldn't use rollback. Jasper Deng (talk) 02:17, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Goodness me. Thank you very much for noticing! I'm currently busy with the FS MOS and other tasks, but I can take a look later. Maybe someone else can check, too? Henni147 (talk) 08:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Their edits seem to have focused on using rowspan to combine cells where the choreography was repeated, which was perfectly valid and proper. None of the edits that I spot-checked showed any changes to birthdates. Bgsu98 (Talk) 09:17, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
I looked things over and it looked like they did both, combined cells and changed birthdates. Combining cells is inappropriate because although the content in them was repetitive, in most cases they were used across program types; i.e., this. It was quite an undertaking to revert, so thanks for taking care of most of it, Jasper. Wow, who would do something like that? And why? The IP has had other problematic behavior in the past, but they're currently blocked for 24 hours, which will hopefully stop it. Something to keep an eye on, for sure. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Article assessment update edit

Hi everyone,

After waiting the requisite seven days for further feedback, I went ahead and created Wikipedia:WikiProject Figure Skating/Assessment/A-Class review. It's not completely finished; I needed to update our project banner, so I'm waiting for it to be transcluded to continue. I also want to nominate an article to test everything, which I will also do when the previous task is completed. Please look it over to see if there are any errors or anything that needs to be added or removed.

I also updated the criteria chart at Wikipedia:WikiProject Figure Skating/Assessment. Please look over that as well.

I'm very excited that we're moving forward on running our own A-class assessments. I think it will make our lives easier and make it possible for more high-quality figure skating articles and lists. Thanks to all who helped! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Figureskatingfan: Excellent, thank you very much for creating the assessment page! I will take another look at it later :)
Update: I added missing values for the class-parameter and fixed some linking and formatting issues. The rest looks good! Henni147 (talk) 13:17, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

MOS update edit

In the context of article assessment, I'd also like to give a quick update on the FS Manual of Style:

  • I added our MOS to the navigation sidebar {{style}} under "sports" and created another shortcut titled MOS:FS for easy access of the page.
  • The sections about article structures and terminology got longer than initially planned. To make the FS MOS more compact and easier to navigate, I moved the terminology section to its own sub-page WP:FS TERM and re-structured the main MOS with separate sections for "general guidelines" and the following five common FS article categories: biographies, competitions, technical elements, skating statistics, and ice shows. Articles that don't fit any of these categories can use the suggestions in the "general guidelines" section as orientation.
  • I also updated our template directory and created the shortcut WP:FS TEMPLATE, which is now linked in the MOS.

I hope to be able to complete the main MOS and terminology sub-page this weekend at the latest, so that we have a complete guide for A-class reviews from now. Henni147 (talk) 16:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Henni147 Thanks for your hard work. I have one nick-picky comment: I'd like to see a variety of examples. Currently, many of the examples you used are from Hanyu's bio, which makes sense because it's the bio you're most familiar with. Could you use other bios' examples that are also as well-developed? Possible examples of bio that I've worked on: Johnny Weir, Yuna Kim; also Nathan Chen. That's all! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:10, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Figureskatingfan: Yes, sure! I planned to revamp the table examples anyways ;)
When I'm finished with both pages, it would be great if you took another look to make sure that there are no errors or problematic guidelines. It's quite a lot of content, but I think it's worth the effort to have a thorough guide for common article types. Henni147 (talk) 17:15, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Of course! Just let me know when you're finished, so that I can look for sources as promised above. BTW, I've been meaning to tell you that although there is a lot of content, I think it's important that we have it as a resource. My username notwithstanding, I didn't feel comfortable contributing to figure skating articles for over ten years after I started my editing career here because the idea of it was so unwieldy and complicated. If there were these resources available, I might have ventured into it earlier. So good work, mate! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:59, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you :) I think, I will tackle the completion of the terminology page first. There is not much missing, while the main MOS still needs some work.
By the way: I don't know if you have read this article by Sandra Loosemore from 1998, but it's an outstanding critical comment on the judging of "presentation" in the old 6.0 system. Most of the mentioned aspects are also true for the current "program component score" (PCS), where "presentation" is one of the three components now. What I love especially about Loosemore's article is the reasoned criticism of sportswriters' sloppy and inaccurate use of FS terminology in their news coverage, leading to the negative public perception that figure skating is "no real sport" (which is still the case today). This source might be very valuable for the articles about FS and the 6.0 System among others. Henni147 (talk) 05:53, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply