Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics/Archive 33

Liberation of Goa vs Invasion of Goa article

Can someone look into the naming of this article: Invasion of Goa vs Liberation of Goa. As per a search on google books most common name is "Liberation of Goa" (642 hits) vs. Invasion of Goa (472) hits. Desione (talk) 08:08, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

On GOI websites:

• Liberation of Goa (78 hits) [1]
• Invasion of Goa (0 hits) [2]

I will look into it. Seems likne the renaming is recent--Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 04:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I have opened up an official move request on WP:RM with any discussion going here: [3]. Thanks. Desione (talk) 05:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Use of "freedom fighter" and "martyr"

Seems to be pretty prevalent among anti-British colonials and Bengali Language Movement and 1971 Bangladesh Independence articles to describe the Indians and Bengalis respectively. Is there a lack of awareness of WP:WTA or is there an agreement somewhere subcontinental articles are allowed to use these terms? Some of these were even put in by people with FA credits! Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Freedom-fighters is a widely used word. I think it should stay cuz it reflects what is used in reality. Nikkul (talk) 11:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know much about the Bengali Language Movement (perhaps Ragib would be the best person to query), but I do know that the words "freedom fighters" and indeed "freedom movement," to describe Indian nationalists and mass nationalism, respectively, are not used in the history books. The usual academic terms are "Indian nationalism," "popular nationalism," "mass nationalism," or "Indian nationalist movement." In fact, "Indian independence movement" is not really widely used either, even though I have retained the term in my slow rewrite of the page. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I have used the phrase "Indian revolutionary and freedom fighter" once because it sounded (and still does) the best word to use in that context. What is the suggested alternative - "nationalist" ? Is "revolutionary" POV too as my revolutionary could be your terrorist ?  :-) Tintin 12:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

'Freedom fighter' is used officially in India, for the people who took part in the independence struggle. Freedom fighters are given freedom fighter IDs, which entitle them to various economic and social benefits. --Soman (talk) 14:28, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

If indeed "freedom fighter" is used officially to describe some official status in India, the term could be used within quotes to describe just that status, but it cannot be used to describe people who took part in the Indian nationalist movement. I note that the new history textbooks for high-school students in India put out by India's National Council for Education Research and Training (NCERT) use "nationalist movement." Please go to to the NCERT textbook website, choose "Class XII," "History" and "Themes in Indian History III", and see "Mahatma Gandhi and the Nationalist Movement." These books are not only being used by schools associated with the Central Board of Secondary Education (some 15 million students), but also those of many states, like Kerala, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, ... The new textbooks are surprisingly sophisticated (historiographically) in contrast, say, to the shabby stuff put out by the previous Hindu nationalist government. Now, if only the Wikipedia articles on Indian history, even many featured articles, could be that sophisticated, it would be progress. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:52, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reply to Tintin) "Revolutionary" and "terrorist" are a little trickier. They are both found in the literature, often in terms like "revolutionary violence," or "terrorist violence." Although the words "revolutionary" and "terrorist" mean different things, to the extent they can be used synonymously, "revolutionary," I've been told, is preferred in Wikipedia, to "terrorist." Also, "revolutionary" can be defined more precisely in terms of something that is outside the conventional or established, or someone who advocates a complete overthrow of an established government etc. and, therefore, can be used more neutrally, than say "freedom fighter." For the same reason, "revolutionary" can be applied to either "nationalist" or "freedom fighter;" the latter two, however, encompass greater meaning. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Move Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi to Mahatma Gandhi

According to WP:Naming Conventions, it would be best to move the article to Mahatma Gandhi, as this is the common name for the person, known throughout the world. N0 one calls him Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. People call him Mahatma Gandhi.

General Wikipedia Naming Conventions start from easy principles: the name of an article should be "the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things". This boils down to the two central ideas in Wikipedia article naming:

  1. The name that is most generally recognisable
  2. The name that is unambiguous with the name of other articles

Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens

The most used name to refer to a person is generally the one that Wikipedia will choose as page name, even if this sounds awkward for those seeing the name the first time: Alfred the Great is the name most used in literature to refer to this person. Changing the name to Alfred-not-so-Great-after-all or whatever would be more POV than using the name that is most commonly used. It is best to remember that Wikipedia does not make reality: Wikipedians note down what is the closest to facts they can find, in this case that the name "Alfred the Great" is most often used to refer to a certain person.

However, King Billy can be a redirect, but not the article name for William III of England: there's no reason to use the short name in this case.

If people published under one or more pen names and/or their own name, the best known of these names is chosen.

Further examples:

• George Eliot - pen name of Mary Ann Evans
• Le Corbusier, not Charles-Édouard Jeanneret
• H. G. Wells - as author Herbert George Wells abbreviated both his first and middle names: the abbreviated "artist's name" is used in wikipedia as page name.
• Scotty Bowman, not William Scott Bowman
• Dizzy Gillespie, not John Birks Gillespie
• 50 cent, not Curtis James Jackson III
• MC Hammer, not Stanley Burrell

---

Examples of common names that Wikipedia uses instead of a more elaborate, more formal or more scientifically precise version include (note that the latter is a redirect to the former):

• Bill Clinton (not William Jefferson Clinton)
• Bill Gates (not William Henry Gates III)
• George W. Bush (not George Walker Bush)
• Tony Blair (not Anthony Charles Lynton Blair)
• Julius Caesar (not Imperator Gaius Iulius Caesar Divus)
• Pelé (not Edson Arantes do Nascimento)
• Occam's Razor (not Ockham's Razor)
• Venus de Milo (not Aphrodite of Melos)
• Dog (not Canis lupus familiaris)
• Guinea pig (not Cavia porcellus)
• Sea cucumber (not Holothurian)

Nikkul (talk) 03:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

This has been discussed before, but was accidentally commented out. Please see Talk:Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi#Full_name. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:53, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Please feel free to add your opinions here Nikkul (talk) 19:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Kisan Kanya (1937 film)

I have created this article on Kisan Kanya, India's first indigenously produced colour film and am thinking of nominating it for a DYK. However, I cannot as the article has been classed as a 'Stub'. It would be great if someone could help me in improving content or adding photographs. Please, hurry, I have only two days left. Thank you-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 00:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that's a very interesting article. And it seems to meet the DYK nomination criteria now.--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:15, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

On Portal:India/DYK of Portal:India

The DYK portion of Portal:India is perhaps the most regularly and frequently updated feature of the portal. Even then, some main page DYKs related to India are sometimes missed (that is, not added to DYK section of the India portal).

This is a request to all the editors that if you create/develop an article that goes on to main page DYK, please add the DYK to Portal:India/DYK as well. The archive of the India DYK now has eleven pages, each with nearly 50 entries.--Dwaipayan (talk) 08:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Portal:India/Selected picture candidates is another neglected section of the portal which needs attention from senior wikipedians of WP:PIN --gppande «talk» 19:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Template:IndiaCensusPop is now available.

Just wanted to announce that similar to other population census infoboxes Template:IndiaCensusPop is now available. Other infoboxes Template:USCensusPop were useless for Indian articles as census year in India ends with 1 like 2001 as against 2000 in US. --gppande «talk» 11:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Rough around the edges

Somebody please work on List of basic India topics.

The Transhumanist 02:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Clean up at Vasota

Newbie created article. It's awful, but clearly well-intentioned. Hope you guys can help. --Dweller (talk) 11:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

List of cities in India needs cleanup

Some easy cleanup required at List of cities in India. (Make links, reformat font of some entries, etc.) (I've done a bit myself, thanks.) -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 14:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Need for Parvathi Menon disambiguation page?

Some time last year, I quoted and referenced a tribute by Parvathi Menon on Mother Teresa written for Frontline. Since then, an article has appeared called Parvathi Menon. I would guess that this is a different individual from the writer and journalist I have referenced. Could someone who knows more about Indian current affairs than I do confirm this? And could people also comment on how well known each PM is. I.e. should the name default to one or the other or to a disambiguation page? Thanks.--Peter cohen (talk) 18:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, notability of the journalist needs to be determined. Skimming through google search results does not really tell me if she is notable enough. Is there an article on her somewhere? =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay I've done a google on her and from the first 100 or so pages have found the following. She is mentioned at [4] and gets denounced as a Marxist in [5]. Also in [6] - I don't have access to full article to know how significant the reference is - and gets a para of analysis here [7] and rather more at [www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/law/elj/lgd/2000_1/fernandes/fernandes.rtf]. She is also mentioned at [8]. Potted bios available at: [9] and [10], additional post mentioned at [11]. How significant are posts such as Bureau Chief for Frontline and Associate Editor and now Bureau Chief for The Hindu?--Peter cohen (talk) 06:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Those sources are not reliable as they are user-generated content. You need to ask the question? What has she done to make her famous. Has she won an award, has she been quoted in a magazine or newspaper for her work, is she a government official of a high post? There are various such criteria that you need to use. Those titles are not notable for Wikipedia inclusion. This link [12] might be a reliable source, if the name is the same. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:56, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:India Advertisement

Hello all! I created this WP:India advertisement since I realized that we had none. It'd be great if you can display this on your userpages to attract more users to joining and contributing to this wikiproject. To use this, please use this code:

{{Qxz-ads|ad=135|links=yes}}

to produce:

Wikipedia ads	file info – #135

Suggestions/ideas are welcome. Cheers! Mspraveen (talk) 17:31, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Tourism articles

Hi, i recently came across the article on Tourist attractions in Mysore and noted that various other tourism related articles across Indian cities do exist. Doesn't this content belong to wikitravel? What is the content difference between wikitravel and wikipedia when it comes to tourist attractions of a city? Wouldn't it make sense to move the content of these tourist attractions' pages and provide a link to the respective city wiki page?

PS: I had earlier experience in creation of an article related to tourism that was subsequently deleted (Quite sometime back i created an article on Tourism in Tirumala that was deleted because the content belonged to Wikitravel) --Kalyan (talk) 00:57, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Any information that would be useful to a tourist should not be placed in wikipedia. As you mentioned, it should be on Wikitravel. The list of tourist attractions must be deleted. Tourist stuff includes: accommodation details, best times to visit, travel tips, places to visit. In addition, a tourist-like article also has a very different tone: sort of a marketing tone, rather than the neutral encyclopedic tone. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:51, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

What Nichalp said isn't quite true. An encyclopedia (particularly this one) is broad in its coverage, and does not merely remove information because it is useful to a tourist. In fact, Wikipedia has a Tourism WikiProject dedicated to tourism articles. But, articles are expected to have some encyclopedic standard, and the assessment dept. tries to keep a relatively high standard for articles in WikiProject India.

Articles that are just a list of tourist attractions do belong as content in Wikitravel, and as such, should not be here, or should be modified accordingly. However, articles that broadly cover the tourism of a place (eg; Tourism in Singapore) are welcomed, as they expand the tourism section of the place's article (eg; Singapore). Unfortunately, I cannot comment on why your Tourism on Tirumala article was deleted, and if indeed it was validly deleted. Ncmvocalist (talk) 12:28, 4 May 2008 (UTC) - WikiProject India Assessment Dept.

I'm not sure why you say my answer is not quite true. Could you clarify? =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

You said "any information that is useful to a tourist should not be in Wikipedia" - this was the untrue part. Ncmvocalist (talk) 12:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

True, but I've defined what classifies as tourist stuff in the next sentence. And such information is not permissible WP:NOTTRAVEL. That's all what I wanted to clarify. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the clarification. the article that i commented on - Tourist attractions in Mysore is a list of tourist attractions and is in no way comparable to Tourism in Singapore which has stats, history of tourist activities, future developments etc. I agree that Tourism in Singapore is encyclopedic content whereas Tourist attractions in Mysore isn't. Please let me know your comments --Kalyan (talk) 07:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Kalyan,
If you read the Wikiproject tourism page in detail, they have specified what should be in Wikipedia and what should not be(obviously this part should go to sister project Wikitravel). Quote says -

Note:WikiProject Tourism focuses on articles related to actual tourism, not tourism destinations. For example, Tourism in Japan or adventure tourism would be appropriate topics. The Eiffel Tower or The Louvre would not.

So, you may write articles on tourism in a country/state, space tourism, adventure tourism, etc... but NOT about the destinations itself. In your case, Tirumala IS A DESTINATION where in people go out for reason of faith. You may write article about Tirumala and also about Tirthayatras but not about tourism in Tirumala. There is difference between articles about tourism and tourism destination articles. Clear? --gppande «talk» 15:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. The reason why i raised the issue is Tourist attractions in Mysore relates to tourist destinations and not tourism in Mysore. --Kalyan (talk) 07:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The article was tagged with speedy deletion by you. The criteria for speedy deletion, does not list tourism destination as a criteria and so your request was denied. So you should have used one of templates listed in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Transwiki_templates. But, I found no template for wikitravel. That revealed more thing - wikitravel is NOT a sister project of Wikipedia. Read http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:About It is simply "inspired" out of wikipedia. So you cannot move the article now. You should tag the article for AfD and discuss this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AFD#Current_discussions. But my guess is, the article will stay. --gppande «talk» 09:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

If other countries can have it then why not Indian cities? After all this is just one encyclopedia.

• Tourist attractions of Beijing
• Landmarks in Curitiba
• Landmarks in North Omaha, Nebraska
• Omaha Landmarks
• Template:Landmarks in Athens
• Landmarks of Chicago
• Landmarks of Denver
• List of Milwaukee landmarks
• Landmarks of Montreal
• Landmarks of Saint Petersburg
• List of buildings, sites, and monuments in New York City

These are just some. Unless there is wide consensus to delete all lists from all the above cities, we shouldnt delete Indian city lists. Nikkul (talk) 07:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Nikul to retain tourism related info in Wikipedia for Indian cities.

• Tourism in Thiruvananthapuram
• Tourist Attractions in Bangalore
• Tourist attractions in Mysore
• Tourist Attractions in Kochi
• Tourism in Chennai

There are 31099 Tourism articles in Wikipedia See here -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 08:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Kalyan, further to me noting that I cannot comment on your case, I did look for the Tirumala article but the deletion log indicates that the article was never created. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:41, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Again, the point to moot is what do you classify as a landmark or attraction and what you do not. How is the scope defined? If there is a clear-cut scope as to what is the inclusion criteria, then it would be a good list, subject to reliable sources. Else, the answer is an unambigious no. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

My last comments on this topic - Please don't compare Indian articles with those of foreign cities. Most of them are either templates or list articles (of landmarks). In the WP tourism page, as reproduced here -

Note:WikiProject Tourism focuses on articles related to actual tourism, not tourism destinations.

" None of the articles - Mysore, Thiruvanthapuram, Bangalore, Kochi or Chennai relates to tourism, all of them relate to tourist destinations. I am not convinced though on keeping these articles as it violates definition of encyclopedic content. However that is my view and since the majority view it as different, so be it. --Kalyan (talk) 03:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The best way to review a landmark or attraction related article is that it should not have information of hotels & restaurants, how to reach, best time to visit and so on. Such information is non-encyclopedic and not worthy of mention in wikipedia. On the contrary, if the article talks about the history, architecture, climate, geography, mythology, etc. of the tourist attraction it can stay. This information would be encyclopedic. Tourist attractions in Mysore talks about the encyclopedic aspects (though it contains WP:Peacock terms). So I said it might stay. --gppande «talk» 09:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:INDIA Welcome Template ?

Do we have a welcome template for new members in WP:INDIA  ? -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 10:59, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I did not see India specific welcome kit. Usually a user is invited to Wikipedia and then you add template for India links {{India quick links}} below it. See templates section in WP:India --gppande «talk» 12:59, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I have seen this . May be we should work on an invitation and welcome templates -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 18:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

See Outreach#Inviting_new_members and Outreach#Welcoming_new_members. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks . I missed it . May we should regularly invite the new members -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 04:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Propsed merger of Brihadeeswarar Temple and Brihadishwara Temple

Both articles seem to be about the same temple. Need someone to confirm this, so I can merge the articles. Also suggest which title needs to be retained. Thanks. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 13:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I believe they are the same temple. The name according to the simplified IAST in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic) should be Brihadishvara if based on Sanskrit, and maybe Brihadishvarar if based on Tamil. Imc (talk) 23:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

"Khansahib"?

I see the name or title "Khansahib" in several articles. I'm not sure whether this refers to the same person or to different people. Can we please make a brief definition and/or disambiguation for this?
(I am unable to do this myself. Please add any information to the actual article on this, not just here. Thank you.) -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 20:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Avichi Meiyappa Chettiar

Friends, I've created an expanded this article on film producer and director Avichi Meiyappa Chettiar. My aim is to get this article featured on Wikipedia's Main page on June 28, the 101st birth anniversary of AVM. But however, as I am busy with other pursuits I am not able to complete the filmography section. It would be great if there is someone who could help me complete the Filmography section as well as some copy-editing work on the rest of the article. Valuable assistance or useful suggestions towards further improvement of the article is most welcome. -Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

A question on a Pakistani person's inclusion in wikiproject India

Akhtar Hameed Khan recently became a featured article. One of the categories the article belongs to is Category:People from Agra. And the person's early life was in pre-independence India. So, should the article be under wikiproject India as well? Or, can it be included in the FA list of wikiproject India? I guess it should be. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

My personal opinion is yes -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 10:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I do not see WikiProject:India in the discussion page's list saying it is maintained by India group. If we have participants from India group who have contributed to make it FA we should add it to India list. If not, I would say leave it. --gppande «talk» 13:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

There are several articles which are yet to be tagged with WP India, this may be just one such. Indeed I was going to add the tag, but thought to ask the question here first. It is not the question if people from India edited the article, the question is whether the article comes under the purview of the project. And my opinion is yes, it does.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:36, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

No, no - I am not saying people from India should have edited it. I am saying Wikipedians of Project India. Everyone can be a part of Project India. Anyways, Akhtar Hameed Khan was born and spent his early life in India but after that(1950) nothing much is said about his interaction with India. WP:India page says The scope of this project includes articles related to India. I am not sure if this article is related. But I am sure similar discussion must have happened in past for other topics. Maybe old folks can guide us here. --gppande «talk» 11:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:INDIA page says, The India WikiProject is a group dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to the Republic of India and the history of the Indian subcontinent.. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:38, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and removed the sentence you are referring to. The sentence is confusing since the scope is already defined in the first sentence. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:47, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree too. If any article comes under the identification guidelines of WikiProject India, then it should be a part of it. Mspraveen (talk) 16:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this article comes under the project. We already have Muhammad Iqbal and Muhammad Ali Jinnah under the project. Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 02:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Agree with Amaryabag here. Needs to be tagged with pre=yes banner parameter. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:38, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Tagged the article with WP India.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I think we need to look at it objectively. If a person was born in British India, did his schooling in current day Indian territory, then yes, the India wikiproject can contribute something to it. But take another case, for example, a person born in 1944, and moved to Pakistan soon after, then the adding the Indian wikiproject tag would be superficial. Such cases need to be evaluated based on how beneficial the Indian wikipedian workgroup is in making contributions to the article. =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

In general, if the person has any 'pertinent' connection with India, then the article should be included in the India project. In the case of Akhtar Hameed Khan, he was in the ICS in India, resigned in protest for British action/inaction during the Bengal famine, he worked in rural communities near Aligarh and the article explicitly connects this to the reason for his notability. I think there is no question here. --Regents Park (Feed my swans) 15:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. "Pertinent connection" is the key =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Assessment stats

With the help of User:Erwin85Bot and ideas from the Aviation project, I was able to create the WikiProject India/Assessment/Statistics page. The bot runs daily at 12:00 (UTC). Please let me know your comments and suggestions. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:09, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Awesome. But I think you need to add FL-class to the paramters of the WP India template - only an admin can. Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:47, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I have added a FL-Class to the banner and have updated the pages. See FL-Class India articles. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 00:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Thats a good job. Provides a nice comprehensive viewing of the statistics! Mspraveen (talk) 07:49, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Good job. Now we get a clear picture -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 04:12, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Good job. Some errors: 1st column data (India) are not linked; all 0 data should be without link (if possible); For some rows, its showing 0 data incorrectly (example: Category class). GDibyendu (talk) 09:18, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Good job ! Very nice dashboard kind statistics. What alarms me is there not a single Featured Picture about India? All the columns for "Image" row shows 0. --gppande «talk» 07:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably due to some kind of tag problems in the pages, I guess. this page lists around a dozen. GDibyendu (talk) 07:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Requesting Expert Advice for Baid

Hi everyone,

Can someone who knows something about the caste system take a look at the article Baid, please? Atm, it's confusing (especially for a non-Indian) and seems to actually be contradictory. Are Baids Brahmins, Rajputs or Banias? Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 16:39, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The article should in fact be deleted as makes no sense KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 (talk) 13:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject films peer review of Pather Panchali

The article Pather Panchali is at the WikiProject Films' peer review section here. Please provide inputs. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 12:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Chola Dynasty

Chola Dynasty has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

Now in FARC. Help to save the article. Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 00:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Sivni District

The article Districts of Madhya Pradesh states Districts of Madhya Pradesh number 48 and mention 48 districts, but I found one Sivni District while writing the article 1997 Jabalpur earthquake. This earthquake in Madhya Pradesh caused structural damage in four districts: Jabalpur District, Mandla District, Sivni District and Chhindwara District. Per these references [13], [14]. But in Template:Districts of Madhya Pradesh and in the article Districts of Madhya Pradesh, there is no mention of Sivni District. Can anyone start the article on Sivni District or fix the error in the article Districts of Madhya Pradesh which omits this district. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 20:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I think this is the same as Seoni...the English rendering of the name has probably not been standardized. The transliteration of the Hindi rendering of the name here is savinee. AreJay (talk) 23:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, this is very much possible. I am redirecting Sivni District into Seoni District. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 05:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Godavari River

Godavari River is an important river of India. When you search by name Godavari it directs you to Godavari(disambiguation) page. Disambiguation list a Telugu movie(2006) and 2 districts which have east and west as there prefix. So 2 districts are not problem as their names are different from search term. I don't think the movie matches in importance to river. I'm not sure how to do this change and do not want to break existing redirects. Somebody more knowledgeable please do so. --gppande «talk» 11:03, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The purpose of the disambiguation page is to present all possible uses of the term. It is therefore ok for the film to be listed as a disambig entry. It isn't for us to decide whether an article warrants entry into a disambig page – if the article itself passed WP:NOTE, I see no reason why it shouldn't be listed in the disambig page. Thanks AreJay (talk) 14:17, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining WP:NOTE. But I see other major rivers like Ganga and Indus the search directly takes us to the river page. At the top of these pages it is mentioned to see other meanings/articles with same name. Does Godavari not merit the same notability? Or does it have to pass through some Wikipedia process/straw poll to by-pass disambiguation page? --gppande «talk» 14:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)..

I just read up about the two AP districts...I think it's fair to say that both districts get their names from the river...I would venture that the Telugu film does too. I would do the following: a) redirect "Godavari" to "Godavari River" b) Retain "Godavari (disambiguation)" c) Add {{otheruses}} templates to each of the articles in "Godavari (disambiguation)" pointing to the disambig page. You could attempt to build consensus around this if you so choose; however, I think the proposed redirect is fair..personally, I would just be WP:BOLD and make the proposed change. AreJay (talk) 16:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I second User:AreJay's thoughts if it works as per his suggestion. Mspraveen (talk) 16:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I third.... Ncmvocalist (talk) 18:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

fourth :-) --Regents Park (Feed my swans) 19:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

fifth :-) let us know when the changes are done --gppande «talk» 06:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems that this got screwed up. Fixed now. Today, Godavari was showing disambig info, Godavari (disambiguation) was redirecting to Godavari. I think intention was that Godavari should redirect to Godavari River, which shows link to disambig page:Godavari (disambiguation), which lists down other uses. Please let me know if I misunderstood the intention. Thanks. GDibyendu (talk) 07:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks good now. Thanks --gppande «talk» 08:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Red rain in Kerala GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Meteorology and atmospheric sciences" articles. I have reviewed Red rain in Kerala and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have left this message at this WikiProject's talk page so that any interested members can assist in helping the article keep its GA status. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left messages on the talk pages of the main contributors of the article along with other WikiProjects. Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix if multiple editors assist in the workload. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 20:56, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I have addressed this to ensure that it meets the requirements for GA. Cheers! Mspraveen (talk) 04:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Census India

The previous website of India census has been changed, now it is censusindia.gov.in. The style of its content has also been changed. The table we have been using for template Gr India uses the provisional data, which is now archived here.

The problem is, there has been some changes in data present in the new India census website, compared to the archived version. Since the archived version was provisional, this change is not unexpected. So, what to do?

Moreover, some articles (such as Delhi), I found, have used other sources (such as studies by universities) to source the estimated population. For example, Delhi is stated to be the most populous metropolis in India. Per census data, Delhi urban agglomeration is third, behind Greater Mumbai UA and Kolkata UA. So, IMO, all the data should follow the census. Eveything else is nothing but expected population/estimation. Please provide input. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I saw those articles on Delhi vs Mumbai. For one, the metrics used to determine that Delhi has a higher population is totally different. Those figures are estimates of the metropolitan area, not the actual geographic city limits. The census of India is the only authorized body to conduct such a task, all other estimates, are well, statistical probability. One of the sources used (it was a rediff source) clearly mentions that Delhi may have surpassed Mumbai. I would suggest that let certified bodies do their job and not worry about third parties estimating such critical data. =Nichalp «Talk»= 19:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I think we should stick with the data on the new census website. As Dwaipayan rightly points out, the now extinct censusindia.net only contained provisional data, so it's no surprise that there are some changes in the new website. The only issue I've faced on the new website is that it doesn't seem to provide population data for cities (as opposed to urban agglomerations). Some articles tend to present both UA and municipal data, when there is a substantial difference b/w the two (Kolkota, Bangalore). As far as population projections from third party sources, I'm okay with them being included in the article in general, as long as it is made clear that the data is an estimate...we will also need to very closely examine such sources for WP:RS. AreJay (talk) 05:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

The new website has data on cities, but you have to put the name of the city in the search boxes, and a pop-up window appears. Or, one has to open the PDF files for individual states/districts. Moreover, the website provides data according to the nomenclature/unit used by the census, such as, "urban agglomeration", "census town" etc. Not sure about data on municipal city limits (which may be available in individual state/district/city websites such as wbcensus.gov.in on census, but not this central website).

A major problem may be the Ganeshbot, which uses the provisional data table (now archived). I could not find any similar table of updated data. Can any body find it, please?--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:19, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

The data is available through a different interface. It requires a free registration, then choosing a State/District/Administrative Unit and then it gives the results. This can be automated. Let me give it a shot, but I can't commit to a deadline. If someone has more time and energy, please attempt that. Alternatively, we can request the complete data under RTI. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 06:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I registered for the Census website and found they were selling data products in US dollars. Are they charging you too? Just wanted to check if it is any different if registering from India. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Ganesh, most of the data is available for free. See if you can access this page. I think the online shop sells the data without needing to fill forms. We can write a form filler to choose one state after another (in the population finder on the left side at http://www.censusindia.gov.in/, and then select every district, and each of its subdistricts to get the complete data that we want. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 04:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I can access the link. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 12:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Villages

User:Ganeshbot had only created Indian towns and cities. This link shows many villages that can be created. User:Blofeld of SPECTRE and User:Fritzpoll are planning to create articles for settlements around the world, and will fill these gaps in time. If interested, check out Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/FritzpollBot. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a good thing. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 04:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Great!! lets do it. Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 05:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The bot approval process has been slow. You can see some of the action at Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Places. Your help is needed to check for dab links. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 12:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)