Wikipedia talk:Feminism and Folklore 2024

Jury members

Narutolovehinata5, SuperHamster, Haoreima and MSG17 I've added all of you as jury members of Feminism and Folklore 2024 here on English Wiki, I was hoping that you would like to be an jury members of Feminism and Folklore 2024. If no, please feel free to remove your name from the jury members. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 01:45, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Narutolovehinata5, SuperHamster, Haoreima and MSG17, please start evaluation of the submitted articles. If articles are not related to folklore and/or feminism will be rejected! Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 10:27, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Will be doing, although due to the sheer amount of articles I'd like some help. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I will also start to evaluate today nor tomorrow. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 10:51, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

@Haoreima:, could you please re-consider your evaluation, expanded or new article should have a minimum 4000 bytes and/or 400 words. If someone expanded 400 words, we could accept that article, even expanded 4000 bytes that also accepted. For new article, minimum 4000 bytes and 400 words is the best option. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 07:38, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@ZI Jony I have added a brief comment on my every evaluation. At massive level, some of the participants are adding less than 400 words, but more than 4000 bytes (through addition of lots of templates). Improving bytes through multiple templates (with little words) makes no significant improvement in the field of ediathon, I believe. Btw, I welcome other juries' decisions as well. They may re evaluate to the same articles as well. I have accepted as well as rejected some already accepted articles, based on whether the articles have more than 400 new words added or not, and whether they're reliabily sourced. Many are found to be unsourced. Unsourced means anyone can delete those passages. Removal of passages means high possibility of not reaching 400 words (& 4000 bytes). @Nokib Sarkar had created CampWiz tool (used for this event), which used to automatically scrutinize that any submitting article has both 4000 newly added bytes and 400 newly added words at the same time. So, many articles that are automatically accepted for submission to Fountain were rejected by CampWiz.

Sometimes, I find untranslated German paragraphs in English articles of this wiki. They're also liable for rejection. By saying so, I don't mean I am a rejectionist. I have accepted a lot of other articles as well, based on the criteria given in the FNF project page.

I saw similar participants submitting similar type of articles in other wikis for this year's FNF. Other juries almost came to the decision of rejection. Haoreima (talk) 10:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Haoreima: thanks for your time, I didn't mean that. However we will proceed to next step. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 11:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Narutolovehinata5, Haoreima and MSG17, I would like to request help to find the best article and best article winner. Please nominate one article each of you that you believe is the best article for the Feminism and Folklore 2024. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 05:19, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

@ZI Jony To my observation, Imoinu Iratpa article is a good candidate. Haoreima (talk) 06:23, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

New tools

Narutolovehinata5, SuperHamster, ZI Jony and MSG17 Shall we use fountain tool as usual or utilize the new tools which are recently developed specifically for this event by the F&F organisers? Those two new tools are Article List Generator by Topic and CampWiz. I still don't have any knowledge whether these particular tools are mandatory to be used or just optional. We need to figure out very soon. --Haoreima (talk) 18:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Haoreima, Article List Generator not working for English Wikipedia! It’s generate list from enwiki to others wikis. This year we will use fountain tool, will look CampWiz for future. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 18:39, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

ZI Jony Btw, in case if they say the news tools are mandatory for the event, I have created a page in the new tool, which is here, adding all our jury members there too! :-) --Haoreima (talk) 18:45, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

However, I've created CampWiz event, which will be only testing this year. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 18:46, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@ZI Jony I agree with the idea of proceeding through Fountain tool. But as their mandate is not verified yet, to avoid any future issue, let's put all the fountain tool's submitted articles in CampWiz too. And let's accept & reject all the Fountain tool's accepted & rejected articles in the CampWiz respectively! This will reduce the risk of losing all our month long efforts in case if they say any of such mandates in the end or during the last hours of the event. What I found out from testing is that accepting and rejecting articles are relatively easy there too, and like Fountain, it also allows submission of articles on behalf of someone by another person. :-) Haoreima (talk) 19:59, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Haoreima, they already confirmed via Telegram that this year we could choose whatever we like to use. Fountain tool's submitted articles we will also submit to CampWiz, and will follow the procedure as they recommended. Which I've called use as testing purpose! Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 03:21, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@ZI Jony Understood now😉! Initially, I didn't get you when you said "testing" because as CampWiz is relatively new, many people are given a "testing" fake page creation opportunities (for experimental submission, accepting and rejecting typical articles) until the beginning of the F&F event this year to gain their experience. I confused your testing with their testing! Lol! :-) Haoreima (talk) 03:29, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Regarding prizes

Are the prizes listed applicable for every language or are they grand winner considering all languages? What I mean is that does every language gets 300 USD first prize?--Pavanaja (talk) 11:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@Pavanaja:, prizes for top contributors is all languages globally, not for each languages! Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 11:35, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@ZI Jony:, Thanks for the clarification. So, what are the prizes for toppers (1st, 2nd and 3rd) in each language?--Pavanaja (talk) 14:28, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@Pavanaja: there are local prizes for top 3 contributors. International team will update in the upcoming week. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 16:11, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@ZI Jony:, I wish that update comes at the earliest. I am a bureaucrat in Kannada Wikipedia and Admin (Sysop) at Tulu Wikipedia. Our community members are keen in knowing this info.--Pavanaja (talk) 05:36, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

@Pavanaja:, they will get back on it via mass message. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 06:36, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

@ZI Jony Hi, Is there local prizes available specific to English Wikipedia, similar to last time around. I can see that local prizes have been announced for this year as well for other languages but not mentioned for English. Regards, Magentic Manifestations (talk) 08:13, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

@Magentic Manifestations:, there are some Wikimedia affiliates who support their local Wikipedia for local prizes. However, I discussed with the international team, and according to them they will announce local prizes soon for English Wikipedia. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 11:23, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the information! Magentic Manifestations (talk) 11:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Pavanaja and Magentic Manifestations, the international team has announced local prizes Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 16:47, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Reports of the event

1st week of February, 2024

User:Magentic Manifestations had submitted 5 articles, User:Alperen also 5, and User:Sura Shukurlu submitting 1. Still, there's a lot of time. Let's see who will edge whom in the upcoming weeks? ZI Jony What do you say regarding this? :-) --Haoreima (talk) 15:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Haoreima, this is just beginning. We have to make more awareness about the event. If possible, could you please post message on some Wikiproject talk pages. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 16:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Sure. :-) Haoreima (talk) 17:03, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Theme

Does the project only accepts articles specifically focusing on narratives of women figures related to folklore, or does it also include stories of significant female figures and issues related to feminism? Sura Shukurlu (talk) 16:30, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Sura Shukurlu, as we mentioned at Wikipedia:Feminism and Folklore 2024#Theme, that's our focused theme for this year. However, you are still able to submit articles related to feminism and folklore. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 05:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

ZI Jony, I only submitted the articles I started in March that were biographies of women with a definite connection to folklore (most of them wrote articles that appeared in folklore academic journals in the 1940s and 1950s). I started other biographical articles in Feb/Mar about women who did not have a strong connection to folklore; it looks like other people have been adding all their articles about women? I'm willing to do that, just let me know.Penny Richards (talk) 20:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

@Penny Richards: the editathon will end within 2 hours from now! Biographical articles you created/improved in Feb/Mar could be submitted, I'd suggest that articles have strong connection to folklore is much better. However, articles about women which related to folklore and/or feminism you could submit now, if articles about women which not related to folklore and/or feminism will be rejected! Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 21:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Missed the window, it seems; but it sounds like I saved you a lot of time deciding which articles to credit points to. Thanks for all the work of judging! Penny Richards (talk) 02:13, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh, we missed some good articles for the contest! Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 10:31, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Objection about evaluation

The rules clearly state that "The expanded or new article should have a minimum 4000 bytes and/or 400 words". This clearly means satisfying only one of these conditions is enough. However most of the articles I have created have been rejected on the basis that they are less than 400 words or they have unsourced paragraphs (that requirement again is not mentioned in the rules). I request a re-evaluation. Alperen (talk) 19:53, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

@Alperen:, for expanded articles minimum 4000 bytes or 400 words we accepted, for new article, minimum 4000 bytes and 400 words is the best option we considered. Re-evaluation will not add any points until @Haoreima: changed his marks. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 06:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Many of your submitted articles already have maintenance templates tagged by third party editors of wikipedia. Moreover, adding lots of templates simply to exceed 4000 bytes when the number of words range from 100 to 300 doesn't seem to be a good approach to develop articles. Moreover, the rules of the contest say that the article should be notable and have reliable sources. Uncountable number of uncited paragraphs are liable for removal. Those are against both notability as well as reliability. If removed, it will further reduce both bytes as well as the already unfulfilled number of words. Moreover, some of your articles are poorly machine translated from German language articles, with the remarkable unreasonable presence of German paragraphs in English article. Haoreima (talk) 06:56, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

I added infoboxes to some of the articles to pass 4000 bytes. It's true and the behaviour is within the rules. Nearly all of the articles are notable and have more than one reliable source. Nowhere in the rules it has been stated that all paragraphs should have sources. BLP rules state that potentially libelous material should be removed. There are not libelous materials in those articles. Anyways, this kind evaluation is just not fair. But I won't insist on anything anymore. All other wikis accept any women biograhpy on any subject without questioning the number of ciations, etc. I followed this example. But this result, makes the comparison among wikis impossible and unfair. --Alperen (talk) 07:10, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Here, you are also acknowledging that you have added templates just to fulfill the threshold of byte counts. Meanwhile, most of your articles have little number of words.

Every wikipedia has their own local notability and reliability guidelines. For English wikipedia, you should abide by the local rules. Please read WP:NOTABLE, WP:RELIABLE & WP:CITATION. FnF guidelines suggest that local notability criteria should be followed. If you personally believe it as unfair, you are welcomed to request another jury to evaluate your articles. But it is not only I telling that your massive bot like creation of articles have problems. I have seen @Ipigott, @Chaotic Enby, @Otuọcha (renamed as @SafariScribe) leaving messages to you, related to the issues about your articles. Haoreima (talk) 07:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Then, you should also have checked the positive reviews, acknowledgment and the encouragement written by @Ipigott, @Victuallers, @User:Rosiestep. Thanks. I will probably not write anything on this issue again.--Alperen (talk) 07:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi there Haoreima and thanks for your ping. I do not want to comment on anything to do with the contest but I would like to stress that since the beginning of the year Alperen has indeed created a phenomenal number of well presented new articles as a result of translations. I cannot comment on issues related to the expansion of existing articles as I have only taken an interest in new articles about women. (In any case, from here it certainly looks as if Alperen was the winner.) I hope this incident is not the reason Alperen has stopped creating articles. I have looked in vain for further activity over the past couple of weeks and look forward further translations by Alperen in the near future.--Ipigott (talk) 11:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. Our evaluation started only after the end of the 2 months of FnF. Haoreima (talk) 12:54, 27 April 2024 (UTC)