Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 September 6

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September 6

private fortresses and bunkers in northern united states-urban legend or not?

I was told that the uberrich in usa are hedging against a breakdown in civilization and a difficult climate if it gets too hot and dry down south. They are said to be building fortresses in places like north dakota and Minnesota. It reminds me of an antihero in Gregory Benford's novel Timescape. Is there any truth in it at all?144.35.45.84 (talk) 15:18, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

This article in Forbes discusses a similar topic in terms of home security and this one from Realtor.com has examples of "zombie apocalypse" resistant homes. It stands to reason that there might be wealthy preppers who would build high-tech doomsday bunkers. In fact, there are even companies such as Vivos based on building such bunkers. I can't find any information on specific locations, but it seems to me that preppers usually prefer northern states like the Dakotas or Montana, though probably more for low population density than climate. clpo13_(talk) 15:37, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

First, that's "ueberrich" and yes, two billionaires from Texas just bought 172,000 acres in southern Idaho: http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/letters-from-the-west/article97790302.html μηδείς (talk) 17:12, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Uber is spelled that way in English and the gentlemen buying land are in the business of buying large blocks of land - not of building bunkers. Rmhermen (talk) 01:15, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Ueber is misspelt that way by people who are ignorant of German, and how exactly do you know these gentlemen are nor building bunkers? μηδείς (talk) 04:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Nor building bunkers? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:46, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

unhelpful pedantry that doesn't address the question

Uber is also usually pronounced "oober" in English. The proper German word is pronounced more like "eeber". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:03, 7 September 2016 (UTC) If you're being pedantic, at least spell it completely correct: über. The extra e should only be used when umlauts aren't available. That is not the case here. Fgf10 (talk) 07:14, 7 September 2016 (UTC) In my experience, the "ue" is rarely used to represent "ü", except in German-speaking countries when an umlaut isn't available. By the time a German word finds it's way into common English, the "ü" is often just rendered "u", which continues the English tradition of making you guess what sound each vowel actually makes. Dragons flight (talk) 08:44, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Yup, I would agree with that. I would say it's more common in English to see the umlaut used correctly than to see the extra e. But both of those would lose out to just forgetting about the umlaut. Fgf10 (talk) 11:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC) You should tell Uber (company) that they're spelling it wrong. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Better yet; tell a couple of the folks above to stop disrupting the above question with off-topic natter.--WaltCip (talk) 16:47, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Or you could tell them yourself. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:16, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Uber is a trademarked name, not a German word any more that Taco Bell is Spanish. I suggested ueber because it is correct, and a lot easier for people with American style keyboards. An of course those two little dots come from a superscript e in the first place. As for nor, have you noticed that the t is right next to the r, that the look quite similar (at least in my font, browser, and computer, and that spellcheck thinks they are bot real words? If Stu just forgot the panda-ears or the e, then it would be a mipselling like mine. But I thought it worth pointing out that Uber is not ueber. μηδείς (talk) The point is that you're a notorious serial misspeller yourself. And you've just demonstrated this thrice more: "any more that", "An of course", "they are bot real words". Not exactly on solid ground to be pointing out the errors of others. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 19:42, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Der Fuehrer? oder Der Fuhrer? Am I bovverd?

Edit request

request completed - SemanticMantis (talk) 14:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Please add the following to the talk page section titled Are people not allowed to ask questions around here? after the last comment by SemanticMantis; While screaming might not be prohibited specifically, I'm pretty sure if you starting screaming in any public place for no reason the police will have a word with you for disturbing the peace with "loud and unreasonable noise", and take action if you didn't stop. So while OPs question might be a little strange, I don't see how your reasoning works to prove he is trolling. 168.9.40.11 (talk) 20:22, 6 September 2016 (UTC) I cannot edit the page myself at the moment. Thanks!

Tall buildings in Madrid

I was looking at List of tallest buildings in Madrid and noticed that after the first four on the list, the height of the buildings drops off quickly. Is this simply due to the Spanish economy not doing very well until the last decade or so? †Dismas†|^(talk) 21:06, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't know Madrid's reason (probably not earthquakes) but an example of a better economy like this is Seoul. The tallest building in Seoul is 1,833 feet high but the second tallest is only 932 feet. And 5th tallest is 817 feet which is 0.2 miles shorter than #1. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:41, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Madrid is, in part, a special case, since the four tall towers were built together and make up the Cuatro Torres Business Area. However, it looks like skyscraper height in a number of cities (I checked Pittsburgh, Frankfurt and Seoul) roughly follows a mathematical law called the Pareto distribution - there are a few supertall buildings, some tall buildings, and lots of medium height buildings. Intuitively, this makes sense - only a few superrich can afford to build a mega-skyscraper, but a more modest building is more affordable. It looks like this law holds for skyscraper heights around the world too. Smurrayinchester 07:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

(Also, by and large even Europe's economic powerhouses didn't build skyscrapers until recently. London's date back to the Big Bang of the late 1980s, Paris's to the redevelopment of the La Défense region, Moscow's to the oligarch boom following the collapse of the USSR, etc.) Smurrayinchester 08:01, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

List of tallest buildings in Europe#Timeline of tallest buildings is instructive here. Prior to the 1990, the TALLEST skyscraper in Europe was only 42 stories. The U.S. past that mark in 1908 with the Singer Building. By 1990, the U.S. had hundreds of buildings over 40 stories. Europe had 1. This is not to say that the U.S. had any kind of economic or social advantage, but architectural trends are different between the two continents. --Jayron32 12:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

This forum post (i.e. not a Reliable Source) suggests that "[t]his is definitely closely related to the historical background of the city. Most European cities, and specially Madrid, have had a rich history which has left a city center full of magnificent buildings from the belle epoque of the Spanish Empire. To mantain the charm of these areas, tall buildings should be built in the otuside of the city, as the clash wouldn't really be desirable." - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:25, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Edit - outdent to show this is a reply to OP - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:27, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

• Most of Europe is basically "full". So it'\s "skyscapers" lie on their sides as according to Eugen Weber's masterful Western Tradition, which is, I think, on Youtube. From the same source, the tallest buildings were often Gothic Cathedrals, and the were often built to the amtal rule: use until failure. μηδείς (talk) 21:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Speaking of cathedrals, quite a few European cities have/had formal or de facto rules that no new buildings can be taller than the local cathedral/tallest historical building. 86.28.195.109 (talk) 06:53, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

My personal thanks to Smurrayinchester for actually providing an accurate and referenced and non-OR answer. More of the same please! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Height restriction laws has examples. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:27, 10 September 2016 (UTC)