Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 July 16

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July 16

Removing rotted off teeth

I recently saw a photo of a boy whose teeth had decayed all the way down to the gum line, leaving stumps, in a BBC article "Child tooth removal 'at crisis point', doctors warn, "12 July 2015 about how the children in England are increasingly having to have their baby teeth or "milk teeth" removed under general anesthesia when they are destroyed by tooth decay.( I can view the article at Google News, but when I add a link it gives a "404 not found" result. A similar article at The Independent is [1] without the illustration in question).Tooth decay is the most common reason for hospitalization of small children in that country. The article did not really get into comparison with other industrialized countries. Is there an article or reliable source reviewing comparative dental health? Does England fluoridate their drinking water like is common in the US? Is more candy and sugar drink consumed? Is there less tooth brushing and flossing, or more infrequent visits to the dentist for cleaning and fluoride treatment? In the US I see children with occasional cavities, but not the total rot down to the gums in the illustration.But the main reason for posting this is to ask (not a request for medical advice, but for general information) how a tooth is removed when it has decayed away down to the gums. Edison (talk) 03:49, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Here in the U.S. there's a stereotype that British people have terrible teeth, but actual evidence doesn't seem to bear this out. One possible factor is that the UK government doesn't provide dental care like it does (other) health care. Our water fluoridation article says the rate of fluoridation is lower in the UK than the U.S. There's quite a bit of poor dental health in the U.S., especially among the poor.

As far as how they're removed, I imagine it's not too dissimilar from how impacted wisdom teeth are removed: cut into the gum tissue, and possibly drill into the jawbone, to get to the teeth below the gumline, after which I assume they use forceps if possible. I had three impacted wisdom teeth removed, which was fun. Two were pulled out intact, but one wouldn't come out, so they had to break it with a hammer and chisel and remove the fragments with the help of a vacuum. --108.38.204.15 (talk) 05:46, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

I just saw a nature show where they had to remove an elephant's tusk, and it was rather similar, in that they broke it up with a hammer and power saw, then pulled out the fragments.

As for causes of tooth decay, acidic drinks is another, as in carbonated soda. StuRat (talk) 06:23, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

The UK government *does* provide dental care under the National Health Service - see NHS dentistry. There are charges for adults, but for under 18s NHS dentistry is free. However, there are fewer NHS dentists than there used to be and some practices will only accept a small number of NHS patients. Common complaints are that people have to travel a long way to find a dental practice that will take them on as an NHS patient, they have to wait a long time for appointments, and it is difficult to get an appointment at a convenient time. If you sign up with a private dental practice you will get seen more quickly but fees are much higher than NHS charges. Gandalf61 (talk) 11:26, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Dentists reluctant to take NHS patients implies that they aren't reimbursed at a high enough rate. StuRat (talk) 14:15, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Nope, just implies they're greedy bastards. They make more than enough money already. 82.21.7.184 (talk) 19:55, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps, if there was an artificial shortage of dentists. But, if the NHS reimbursement was enough to cover their education costs and expenses and still make a comfortable living, presumably more people would become dentists to cover all the NHS patients. StuRat (talk) 20:43, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

... and for the mechanics of the extraction process, see dental extraction, which makes a distinction between "simple extractions" and "surgical extractions". Gandalf61 (talk) 11:31, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

The way NHS England dental charges go it is much cheaper for adults to let a lot of teeth go rotten than to have them seen to one at a time. If you leave things until you need to go to hospital (even as an outpatient), then treatment is free even for adults.[2] Thincat (talk) 11:50, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Strange letter codes at London Bus stops

If you look at TfL's page on a random bus line you'll see that almost every stop is marked with a letter, for example Chessington World Of Adventures has the letter Z. Is there a system or a meaning behind these letters? From my perspective they are completely random: stop UJ is followed by G, then comes E3, then T, then U and then there's a stop which doesn't have letter at all, but instead a white roundel. Can anyone explain this to me? -- Metrophil44 (talk) 16:10, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

There are lots of groups of bus stops based around various hubs. If you look at the bus stops around Waterloo station, for example, you'll see the pattern (A and B next to each other on Station Approach, C and D down Waterloo Road, E and F further up that road, etc.). This allows someone to be told "when you get to the station, go to bus stop D". If they was only one numbering/lettering system, they'd have to directed to "bus stop 724" or "bus stop AHF" or whatever. They're not designed to have any meaning for someone who's already on a bus. Proteus (Talk) 16:43, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

That was my first thought, but I don't think it's the right answer. It makes sense for large hubs like Waterloo, but every little bus stop like Holmwood Road is not going to have more than one stopping point. --Viennese Waltz 20:28, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

And "every little bus stop" doesn't have those signs; they're only used in areas where enough routes come together to make it worthwhile. If you stand at one of those stops you'll see a local-area map showing the stop letters and with a table showing which stop you should use for your destination. It's very handy for people who don't know where all the individual bus stops area. Here's an example where the map also includes a diagrammatic version of the continuation of each route; I'm more familiar with a version not having that last feature, but I can't find an example in Google Images. --174.88.133.35 (talk) 21:10, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

What is a Club Soda?

One of my mates says it's his favourite drink, but I have never even seen a place that sells them. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 16:29, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

It's just carbonated water flavoured with bicarbonate of soda, aka soda water. Rojomoke (talk) 16:40, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

(ec) Club soda (also see seltzer) is carbonated water and sometimes a few other ingredients (see the links). It's often mixed with something more flavorful, and perhaps alcoholic: [3]. Then there's 7-Up and Sprite, which are basically the same but with sugar/corn syrup added and some lemon/lime flavor. Those are also useful as mixers. StuRat (talk) 17:08, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Schweppes Club Soda is "Carbonated Water, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Chloride, Potassium Sulphate" according to Schweppes here. So, no, it's not carbonated water. DuncanHill (talk) 17:17, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

There is a Huffington Post article explaining the differences. DuncanHill (talk) 17:22, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

It's rather dishonest to edit your post after someone has replied to it. DuncanHill (talk) 17:30, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

I was having PC probs and had to keep saving it in little bits, then kept getting edit conflicts with you. So, I was just finishing my post. If you look through my edit history you will see I often edit a post many times, to get it right. I find if I wait until it is perfect before I post, I will get an edit conflict or a PC crash way too often. StuRat (talk) 15:37, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

So it's just soda water,and the addition of the word 'Club' is meaningless? KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 19:12, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Resolved

• Wikipedia says at carbonated water that "soda water may be identical to plain carbonated water or it may contain a small amount of table salt, sodium citrate, sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate, potassium citrate, potassium sulfate, or disodium phosphate, depending on the bottler". But sometimes a distinction is made: in that case "soda water" does not contain the additives while "club soda" does. If the words are used that way, then the "club" means something. --174.88.133.35 (talk) 21:19, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Is your friend Irish? See Club Orange - kinda like a cross between Tango and Orangina - Cucumber Mike (talk) 20:52, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

What nobody has mentioned is that "Club Soda" is (in my experience) an exclusively American term. --ColinFine (talk) 23:11, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Club soda was originally a brand name, from a company in Ireland.[4] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:37, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

There is a brand called Club but club soda is more often the term for the brandless, inexpensive soda water sold on a particular premises. It's like ordering the house wine in a restaurant.--Ykraps (talk) 13:53, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and whereas soda in the US appears to be a generic term for a fizzy drink, in Europe it is specifically carbonated water containing sodium bicarbonate.--Ykraps (talk) 14:04, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

• To answer KageTora the "club" part has to do with the fact that joints that sell drinks are often called clubs. Indeed, in some US states, public liquor sales are (or at least were) illegal, and one had to join a drinking club (pay the bar a one-time fee) to be able to drink there. See EO. μηδείς (talk) 20:35, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Thinking Styles

I am looking for where to research "Digital" thinking as compared to "Analogue" thinking styles and I don't know where to start.Can you suggest where to look?75.36.164.168 (talk) 17:39, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "digital thinking" and "analogue thinking"? With what I know of neuroscience, the human brain isn't digital at all. --Jayron32 22:13, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

See Terry Cook (archivist) for our only mention of the term - Google also reveals that John Brockman (literary agent) (whose article I would not put money on surviving AFD) and Jay Rosen have written on the subject. I'm still not sure myself what it actually means... Tevildo (talk) 22:43, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

The closest I can think of is "black and white thinking" (which could be called 0/1 thinking, or binary, or digital), versus nuanced thinking (the analog analogue). For example, in a war if somebody thinks "the enemy is evil, we must kill them all", that's "black and white" thinking, while "we must find a way to live together" is more nuanced thinking. (You might think the nuanced thinking is always better, but Neville Chamberlain found it isn't always so.) StuRat (talk) 05:26, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Or maybe "linear thinking". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:59, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps it's something to do with figuring out things with your fingers as oppose to thinking with your ass.

Is gender change illegall in most countires

Just wondering. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.71.183.70 (talk) 20:29, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Laws concerning gender identity-expression around the world.

  Legal identity change

  No legal identity change

  Unknown/Ambiguous

See Transsexual#Legal and social aspects and Legal aspects of transsexualism. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:44, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

That map's outdated; Ireland just passed one of the most progressive gender-transition laws in the world. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:04, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

I doubt that it's "illegal" anywhere. In some places it may not be recognised, meaning that a person would remain their original sex as far as the law is concerned, regardless of any physical transition they may undergo. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:09, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• Iran forces openly homosexual people to undergo sex-change surgery, even if they are not transexual. Advocate. It is somewhat ironic this is viewed as legal recognition. μηδείς (talk) 23:07, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

There'a a flaw in that plan. If two gay guys in a relationship were forced to become females, they could still have a same-sex relationship, only as lesbians this time around. I guess the state could then force them to change back again. Or maybe just execute them and be done with it. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:27, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Once you accept any contradiction it implies every contradiction. I wish I could remember the Latin name for that fact of formal logic. μηδείς (talk) 20:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

ex falso quodlibet. - Lindert (talk) 22:53, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what you call stuff. It's still stuff. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:05, 19 July 2015 (UTC)