Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 April 19

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April 19

UK postage stamp price increases

It seems to me that over at least the last twenty years or so, Royal Mail's prices for first and second class stamps have increased at rates that exceed inflation. I cannot however find a comprehensive history of prices, either as a graph or a table. Most of what I've found is news stories or other commentary about "yet another price increase", often with some limited mention of previous increases, but no full data anywhere. Can anyone help me locate this information? If we find it, it would be good to add a graph to an article such as Postage stamps and postal history of Great Britain or Machin series (I don't know enough about stamps to know where would be best). Most of what Wikipedia currently has on Royal Mail stamps is all about design and other features of interest to collectors. The stamps I'm talking about are non-denominated postage and so don't have monetary values written on them, so the designs don't change with the prices. Indeed, that article says: "Non-denominated postage was first introduced in the United Kingdom in 1989 for domestic mail, in part as a workaround to the problem of fast-changing rates." — Trilobite 05:50, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

This seems to cover the matter with regard to basic first-class postage, though the information isn't in the form of a graph or table. (We do have an article on the United States that seems to be a possible model for what you want: History of United States postage rates. I'm not finding an easy online source for UK rates presented in the same detail, though.) Deor (talk) 11:49, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

The article linked by Deor covers US rates but not UK. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:03, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Plus, it doesn't compare price rises with inflation, which is what the OP asked for. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 12:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Drat, I shouldn't try to Google before my morning cup of coffee. However, I believe the OP asked for "a comprehensive history of prices", not a comparison of price rises with inflation. Deor (talk) 14:07, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

If someone had access to a run of Whitaker's Almanac they could work it out, as it lists postal rates each year. DuncanHill (talk) 12:15, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I think the increase is due more to political theory than straight economics. Before 1979, the Post Office was regarded as a service provided by the government and there was little pressure for income to match expenditure. Enter Margaret Thatcher and her brand of Monetarism and you see the start of a long struggle to make the Post Office pay its own way, with some early success - although it has been making a loss since 2000, despite a a £150 million annual Government subsidy[1]. The choice is: pay more for stamps, or pay more tax to bail it out, or cut the service it provides. Alansplodge (talk) 12:43, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

This [2] contains a graph showing the tariff for 20g compared to the Cpi --80.195.117.33 (talk) 12:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

You could ask Wikipedia:WikiProject Philately. -- Wavelength (talk) 14:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

According to this blog, the standard first class rates (for a small envelope) rose from 18p to 34p between 1990 and 2007. The rate was 30p in 2005 and 32p in 2006. It rose from 34p to 36p in 2008, to 39p in April 2009, and to 41p earlier this month. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:48, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Could this be something to do with a gradual equalisation of postage rates across Europe? In my experience, you will find UK postage rates generally lower than elsewhere in western European countries with similar economic situations; and that is borne out by the statistics provided by 80.195 It generally costs over €0.50 to send a letter in France, Belgium, Denmark, & Germany, with the UK only recently catching up to something like those rates (with the recent rise to 41p). Interestingly, the rates in Germany seem to have been pretty static for the last 10 years or so - from an expensive seeming €0.56 in 2001 to a much more average seeming €0.56 in 2008.

Either that or it's all Maggie's fault for trying to make suggesting a public service (should) pay its own way. Astronaut (talk) 19:07, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Not all Maggie's fault. In the 2000s, the postal market has been opened [ref], exposing Royal Mail to more competition in the profitable areas of its business (e.g. bulk mail)[3] and leaving it with the obligation to provide an unprofitable universal service. In 2008, with 1st class stamps rising to 36p, Royal Mail was still losing 6p per letter. [4] AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:06, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I stand corrected. Adjusted the wording above to clarify. Astronaut (talk) 10:32, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Flight Manuals

Does anyone know where one could find flight manual's for some of the "heavies" in the aircraft world? Like for a Boeing 747 or an Airbus A380? ^Avicenna_sis @ 07:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

eBay. I searched for 747 flight manual as well and came up with a training manual. I'm not sure if you were looking for that though. Dismas|^(talk) 07:19, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. :) ^Avicenna_sis @ 20:05, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

side discussion about aircraft manuals

Am I wrong to find such a request (and search for flight manuals) a little worrying. Shouldn't such material be restricted to (and controlled by) the appropriate agencies? 92.30.48.156 (talk) 09:31, 19 April 2010 (UTC) Yes, you are wrong. What exactly do you think a person will do with the knowledge? Steal a 747? Hijack it and try to fly it by consulting the appropriate page at the appropriate time? Build one from scrap items found in said person's garage? How much more likely that someone is fascinated by such vehicles, and wants to learn more about them. You'll forgive me if I say that the culture of paranoia is entirely out of place in a forum dedicated to making information free. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:14, 19 April 2010 (UTC) Of course you're wrong. Anyone who can afford it can buy a plane, and how else could they use it?! ╟─TreasuryTag►consulate─╢ 10:21, 19 April 2010 (UTC) (edit conflict) Ditto to what Tagishsimon said. In college my roommates were aviation students and were fascinated by any airline minutia they could get their hands on. (they all loved the airline silverware that I brought with me when we moved into the apartment) One guy was a trainspotter too. There are completely innocuous reasons for wanting something like this. Additionally, how would you go about keeping these things secure? There are thousands of pilots out there that need these for reference material. There are thousands of aircraft out there with these things on board. How would any organization, private or governmental, keep track of every copy? And finally, you can go to any aviation college bookstore and buy copies of the manuals for smaller aircraft such as Cessna 152 and 172s. (that's where I got mine after all) Small planes too can be used for terrorist acts. Don't let your paranoia get away from you. Dismas|(talk) 10:25, 19 April 2010 (UTC) Oh guys, I am so sorry - clearly I have stepped on a toe or several here. Please feel free to issue these technical and training manuals to any potential 9-11 terrorist in future - as you please - I was merely concerned about the safety of non-terrorist individuals and organisations that might die or be mutilated by the use and misuse of such materiel in future. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. After all, it's not planes that kill people.....................92.30.145.192 (talk) 19:58, 19 April 2010 (UTC) So, we should also not teach people to drive because some people may chose to use that knowledge to run people over? Knowledge is neutral - it is only the application of knowledge which is good or bad. Avicennasis @ 20:05, 19 April 2010 (UTC) Can't believe I forgot this point: assume good faith. Avicennasis @ 20:06, 19 April 2010 (UTC) With the very best of wishes to you personally, that's exactly the sort of crap logic that's leading to photographers being challenged when taking street photography. It's a form of security theater, in which one plays to the perceived risks not the actual risks. In this case, in short, if you think you can fly a 747 after nothing more than reading the manual, you're a braver / more stupid man than me. By the same logic, presumably, domestic flight simulators should be banned? How about the geographic coordinates we've placed on 600,000 or more articles: very useful to terrorists planning their destruction shopping list. Don't even get me started on the offensive uses of Google Streetview. I think you should make some plausible argument for the risk associated with dissemination of this sort of information. Simply flapping your arms around, as you are (metaphorically) doing above does not convince anyone of anything. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:07, 19 April 2010 (UTC) Seriously, flying a plane in visual flight conditions while it is in the air, especially a commercial jet is fairly simple. The tough part is the take off, the landing, the approach, instrument flight, what to do if your engine, hydraulics, radio, landing gear etc... fails, and flying in your assigned area when there is other traffic about to eliminate chances for a midair. All these tricky things are stuff that are of little concern to someone who has no intention of returning the aircraft to the hanger in good shape. 65.121.141.34 (talk)

We're obviously having a disagreement about whether or not these should be available. If you want to continue that conversation, do it inside the box. If you want to make any other suggestions for where the OP could find a manual (as it appear that they are available), make it down here. Buddy431 (talk) 20:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I found this pdf online (warning: 9.2 MB download, 964 page pdf), the "747-441 Operations Manual". I'm not sure about the copyright status of it (I'm not even sure where I'm getting this from, it just came up in a Google search). Buddy431 (talk) 20:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

How often do power surges occur?

Looking at surge-protected extension cables, I was wondering - how often do power surges even occur? I'll make it easier for you and say just in one country, not all over the world. Also how do they occur? Chevymontecarlo. 14:31, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

A nearby lightning strike is one cause. StuRat (talk) 18:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

It depends on what you mean by power surges. Just having a fridge or vacuum cleaner that's being switched off and on will cause voltage spikes but a decently built power supply in the computer should deal with those. As Stu say, lightning will also cause spikes (which can be bit too high for most protectors) but that's fortunately rare. However, if the supply arrives via miles of overhead wooden poles and installed to low standards, then spikes will be more common. Even within the same country, it seems to depend on local conditions and what equipment is also on your side of the main step-down transformer. --Aspro (talk) 18:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

As always, Wikipedia has an article about it. See: Voltage spike--Aspro (talk) 18:39, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I looked up some OFGEM figures for the UK here which suggests there were about 32 million short interruptions to power supply across the UK in 2005/6, averaging at 132 per 100 customers (no, I don't know why they use that metric either). I hazard a guess and Voltage spike suggests these may be responsible for one category of spikes, to give you some volumetrics. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't have the software needed to read that document. Does it have any kind of estimates on the causes of the momentary power spikes ? Back where I used to live, no small number of them were caused by squirrels inadvertently contacting a power line where it's attached to a power pole, resulting in an electric arc, a very short power dip, and a fried squirrel. It would be interesting to see if they can estimate the power dips by type. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like you're still using Microsoft Word. Download a free copy of OpenOffice.org and you can always have an up to date office software suite. --Aspro (talk) 08:11, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Nope, too high level. It subdivides into: 1) Automatic operation and restored by automatic switching 2) Automatic operation and restored by manual or remote switching 3) Manual or remote operation 4) Operation of switchgear on other connected systems. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:39, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't address the question about surges, does it? I have been wondering this too, and have also been wondering whether the useful metric would be how often the surge protector companies actually pay the US$10,000 warranty they claim to protect you with if your equipment was plugged into their power strip during the surge. Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:28, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

That would only be a metric to see how good the surge protectors are. The proper metric would be to see how often something delicate not on a protector is fried. I don't hear about it happening much, but I really don't know. Buddy431 (talk) 21:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

You are quite right. Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:56, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Not really dealing with the question, but lightning is a big killer of modems (including ADSL of course) and sometimes connected equipment in Malaysia but this usually comes from the telephone line AFAIK which lacks the surge protectors common on US telephone lines. I know someone who's lost IIRC 3 modems (2 ADSL and one v.90 although it's possible there was another dialup) over 10 years or so, and one motherboard (connected to the ADSL line), can't remember if the CPU survived or not. For a long time they did have the policy of manually disconnecting the phone line when there was lightning which probably helped, but of course you may not always do it in time or may be out. They're now using a lightning protector and so far nothing has died in the past 4 years except for the protector which is designed to die if necessary (it has a removable telephone part that can be replaced for IIRC RM15). Actually they did have a different protector once which didn't help protect the v.90 modem. While a big problem in Malaysia, it's also easy to find anecdotal reports from other countries like Australia [5] and the US [6] although again, I'm not sure these are coming in from the power line.

When it comes to lightning, it obviously depends a lot on where you live. Lightning storms are common in Malaysia, the company which made the v.90 agreed to replace it even though it was damaged by lightning although it had to be sent back to the US, the person said they didn't know what to suggest since they got them like 3 times a year there. Similarly here in NZ it's surprising when you have one since they're so rare.

In terms of the guarantees at least for lightning, I personally don't consider them of much use, they often have some fairly stringent conditions/exemptions. At the very least all equipment usually needs to be connected to them for the guarantee but they usually have more that I don't think they're worth much. There was a strong opponent of those on usenet, w_tom, you can see one of his? posts here [7]. While I didn't entirely agree with all he was saying (in particular, for a long time he was sprouting stuff that may have been true in the US, but not Malaysia although seemed to eventually realise when I pointed it out) I think a lot of what he said was useful so you may want to look at some of his other posts.

Nil Einne (talk) 07:09, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Please Please help (bad manager)

How do you get this unthankful,arrogant manager to learn a lesson as she thinks i am her slave , can anyone help as i had enough and want to end either her or me n this office..anyone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 17:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Be professional, schedual a meeting with him or her, as well as a 3rd party, make a plan before hand, and in a calm, professional manner explain to them what the issues at hand are, and possible solutions to the problem that you may have, eg, I am unable to do zxy because abc take a certain amount of time to complete, we could out scource xyz to Bob in personel as he has expressed an interest in this field. Remember at the start of the meeting to relax every one by asking, how their weekend was or hows the wife, etc. above all keep calm, especially if they do not, and be proffesional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 18:13, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Start here:How to Deal with Difficult People at Work --Aspro (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

If you are a union member, try speaking to them for advice. If you work for a large company with an HR department, they may be able to give assistance, if you can't work things out between the two of you. Warofdreams talk 18:37, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Realistically - the only difference between a slave and an employee is that the employee gets paid and can leave at any time. So you aren't really being treated like a slave. The distinction is a significant one - as an employee, you can choose to leave. In the limit, that's your only guaranteed way out. However, once you've realized that - you really don't have much else to lose. That's an empowering thing. Once you've decided that the situation is intolerable (ie the hassle is not worth the pay), your choices become very simple: Either resign - or to make a fuss and thereby either improve the situation or end up losing the job anyway. That seems like a no-brainer - you might as well make a fuss, at least that way you have a chance to improve the situation. Now it's just a matter of how you complain. Step one is to gather evidence - find memos, emails - anything you can bring to the table to show your case. If there are things that you are aware of (or your manager has complained about you) then you have to have solid reasons why you did what you did in these cases. Remember - you are trying to show why the company is worse off because of this behavior - not why you, personally are worse off. When you have that evidence, you need to go to the HR department and find out what the official route to bringing a complaint it. There may be a specific person in HR - or the boss of your boss - or a union or some other route. Whatever it is, follow the guidelines to the letter. The last thing you want is for there to turn out to be an error on your behalf. SteveBaker (talk) 19:00, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Important point to remember: Trying to "teach someone a lesson" generally doesn't work. Getting your ducks in a row and dealing with it in an adult way, as Baker suggests, has a possibility of positive results. A boss needs to be able to save face a little bit. Something else to consider: Is it strictly a personality clash, or is there a possibility the boss has violated the company's Code of Conduct in some way? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:29, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

If she's asking you to do things that are reasonably part of your job description, you should simply do them cheerfully - taking orders from a boss is not slavery, but just part of being a working person. If she's asking you to do things that are not reasonably part of your job description, politely tell her that you're confused about what your job responsibilities are, and ask her to clarify what your job is- then you can go to her boss if she's asking you to do unreasonable things. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:06, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I see receipts at work and am sure that a senior member of the work force is putting his private expenses through the company accounts. Should I inform his boss? We are a small group of workers and I would be implicated as the whistle blower. In these time of job scarcity I am reluctant to put mine into jeopardy. What does anyone advise please?--Artjo (talk) 10:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

In some companies it is common and accepted for senior executives to charge personal expenses to the company (even extending to personal use of the company's private jet) and it is just considered part of their compensation package, so he may not actually be doing anything wrong. If he isn't supposed to be charging personal expenses to the company then it will be somebody's job to check those receipts are valid expenses and you should probably just leave it to them. --Tango (talk) 13:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

One strategy, to be considered, is to turn that which is offensive, to your advantage, if possible. If work is being piled upon you, a common tactic of those trying to establish status hierarchies that flatter their egos, and if it is possible for you to easily do that work, then try, over the short term anyway, to just do it. Accomplishing work makes you valuable, and even relatively menial activities can be learning experiences in unexpected ways. There is a degree of empowerment that derives from contributing to a project. And you both work for the same company. Bus stop (talk) 14:25, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

The easiest way to get an oppressor off your back is just to surrender, with no reservations. Vranak (talk) 16:22, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

It may also help to be very polite to your boss (lots of please and thank yous) which may a) signify to your boss that you think politeness is important, and b) serve as a role model for your bosses own behaviour. 92.24.75.193 (talk) 11:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The Ownership society or the Loanership society? (in 2004 election)

Did Karl Rove win the 2004 elections by revving up home loans at Fannie Mae? Wasn't there some kind of email trail reported on in the New York Times or maybe elsewhere? Thanks, Rich (talk) 18:41, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Government policies and the subprime mortgage crisis is probably our most useful article when looking into this type of claim. The causes were many and complicated, as can be seen from the fact that the above article is a sort of subarticle of Causes of the financial crisis of 2007–2010, which in turn is a subarticle of our Subprime mortgage crisis article. Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:41, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, it looks informative, i'll check it out.Rich (talk) 02:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

What is the most common NBA rotation?

What is the most common NBA rotation? Are players in certain positions usually rested first, or is the order of the rotation usually based on resting players of a certain skill level first? When are the starters usually rested? (At the end of the first quarter and beginning of the second quarter during each half, or at the end of the first quarter and the end of the second quarter, etc.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rod700 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

The team's most important players will be rested, if they're rested at all, at the end of the first quarter/beginning of the second so they get the most rest possible in the least amount of game time. They will often be taken out of the game when there is little time left in any quarter (less than a minute), to avoid fouls. The less important players will usually be rested before the stars, but it's based more on other factors (matchups/fouls/etc). I haven't noticed any trends as far as position goes. Recury (talk) 19:44, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I believe centers tend to have less stamina than do other players and are often in foul trouble, so big men are often rotated. However, the sixth man is rarely a center and is more often a shooting guard or forward. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:09, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

It's also important to make sure there are enough players to rotate in and out Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 02:24, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Accounting: Corporation tax on the balance sheet

In accounting you defer payment of corporation tax to the next financial year.

Since assets = equity + liability. If I pay my corporation tax from the previous year, my assets (cash) will go down. How do I represent the change on the other side of the equation to make my balance sheet balance.

You can't represent it as a loss in your profit/loss as each year is independent of the next according to tax rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.253.249 (talk) 19:43, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I am not an accountant, but surely on the balance sheet it shows up initially as a future liability and cash in the bank, and when paid becomes an absence of future liability and absence of cash at the bank. Presumably a profit & loss account for the year (or some post processing afterwards to show profit after tax) would show the tax liability as a deduction from profits in the year the profits were made? --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:10, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

To add on that, on the income statement, there is usually a profit before interest and income taxes and below that, net profit after interest and income taxes. The "future liability" (actually called provision for income tax, or something like that) would be deducted from net profit and thus, from equity.
That is, the adjusting entries would be:
Debit Equity xxx
Credit income tax liability xxx
SYSS Mouse (talk) 22:20, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

If the tax is paid the next year, then in the year it's incurred, it increases liabilities (deferred tax liability) while reducing owner's equity (tax expense). In the year that it's paid, it reduces liabilities (deferred tax liability) while also decreasing assets (cash). --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Crimes which shook the world: Ipswich murders?

Five have got a programme in the series Crimes which shook the world on the Ipswich 2006 serial murders. My question is simple: whilst they were big news here in the UK, were they reported in other parts of the world, and to what extent? - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 21:01, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I'll expand the question: Is there a process for determining this question for any particular news event? A system of googling and dividing up the results by country would result in garbage, presumably, because the web is a big echo chamber. Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:19, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I will say that I never heard of the 2006 Ipswich murders in the US, but that just means that it was not treated as earthshattering news since I was not looking for it. Googlemeister (talk) 21:28, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree, it wasn't big news in the US. 5 murdered prostitutes in another country wouldn't qualify as news here unless there was video or at least audio to play. StuRat (talk) 21:29, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain the major news organizations -- ABC News, CBS News, and NBC News -- did not cover it at great length (if they even did at all), because the only reason I know about this story is because I read the BBC's website quite frequently. I would not be surprised if the 24/7 "soft news" channels, such as Fox News and Headline News -- organizations that have a reputation for blowing minor stories, such as car chases and missing children, way too far out of proportion -- ran some coverage, although since I don't patronize those awful cable channels I can't tell you for sure. Xenon54 / talk / 22:07, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I like to think of myself as a fairly well informed American when it comes to the news but I never heard of this until I found myself reading a bunch of serial murder articles on WP one day. Dismas|^(talk) 02:58, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

From memory they were reported on here in NZ well enough for people to notice. A lot of big UK news is of course Nil Einne (talk) 06:53, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Per Google News Archive, the story made the Associated Press wires and was covered in US and other world newspapers outside the UK on December 18-22, 2006, when the police announced they had arrested him for the series of killings. The trial in Jan-Feb 2008 received very scattered and sparse coverage outside the UK. I follow the world news pretty closely (from the U.S.) and do not recall hearing of the matter. Edison (talk) 14:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Someone was murdered by someone called Ipswich ? Didn't make the papers in Asia. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:53, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I assume this last comment is a joke? Either that or your haven't read the link to see what it's about... Gazhiley (talk) 07:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The former. Can't imagine a simple murder -- I assume no one famouse -- having such earth-shattering effects on the entire world. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:07, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe, but the point is this wasn't a "simple murder" but a calous and pre-meditated serial murder of vunerable women... This may or may not have an effect on people throughout the world due to its nature, but either way, not the right topic to be making a joke about please... Gazhiley (talk) 12:04, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

How to assist extremely shy and paranoid friend?

Alright I'm 17 and recently I've got to know this really really shy guy at school who just hangs out in the locker room during every break. He just waits in the locker room all break until classes start again, talking to noone. Noone else ever hangs around the locker room, the only time you ever see people in there are about 5 mins after the start and 5 mins before the end of breaktime. One day I saw him writing "my life is fucked" on the shelves where we leave our schoolbags. In class he sits alone, usually way up the front to one side. He never does his homework and the teachers are always giving him detention because of it, and he's being doing really badly in tests. Yet he's actually quite bright. He has no friends at all, except a few of my closest friends and me. We've been trying to help him, we've been talking to him, saying hello and stuff, trying to get him to come and talk to our other friends, but he's extremely shy and I think he's slightly intimadated by us - particularly as the "other friends" I reffered to are probably the most popular bunch in the school. One of my friends sat beside him in a class the other day and he started asking my friend "what are you doing?" "why are you sitting there?". We managed to get him outside to where we hang around, and a few people said hello, they all know he's like this and they wanted to be nice, but after about 2 mins he went back inside to the locker room - again these are quite a popular bunch and I think he was a bit intimidated.

Sorry, the paragraph above might be hard to read, but how can we help him? If he stays like this his life obviously is fucked.--92.251.250.146 (talk) 22:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Wow, I'm impressed that you make such an effort. I'd just keep doing what you're doing. He probably thinks you're setting him up for something, but, when that doesn't come true, he may start to trust you more. Try to find out what he likes; a band, a movie, a sport, etc., and get him to talk about that. Then maybe go to see that with him. StuRat (talk) 23:07, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah forgot to mention he's into sport but the team he plays for is crap so he gets bullied by these other dickheads.--92.251.250.146 (talk) 23:14, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I would ask about his home life, too; make sure you ask ope-ended questions. Even if you can't find something to admire, that person still has the potential for greatness, even if they can't see it.

One other thing; I don't want to scare you. But, just as a warning...just make sure you know the signs that a person might be ready to end it all; at that time, you would need to make sure that that person isn't left alone, and that professional help is sought.

That said, it may just be extreme shyness, but with this person not doing any homework, writing what they wrote, I just worry.

So, try to get him to open up, like you're doing, and show him he can tell you about any problems. Because, people don't usually write that about their lives unless there's something behind it. it could be short-term, it could be a long-term problem.209.244.187.155 (talk) 00:16, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the above. Gently continue doing what you're doing - which is truly admirable. The self imposed isolation is a bit concerning and you may have inadvertently used the word paranoid in its correct, original meaning, an unfounded fear that someone is intending harm to the individual, this may be indicative of an underlying mental illness. Adolescence can be a hard time for some people especially if they do not have a supportive family or social life. I remember some odd guys when I was at school (several decades ago) and they turned out to be OK, and one became pretty successful. The kind of support you are showing him is the right thing to be doing in the short term but if he has not shown any positive change over the next few months you need to consider how you might alert professional help. You and your friends are to be hugely commended for your concern. I hope your efforts pay off and you have something positive to remember all your life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caesar's Daddy (talk • contribs) 07:15, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeh I think you're doing the right thing by trying to befriend him, trying to include him in your plans would be good. If he's really feeling out of it even limited social interaction could feel threatening, which is why he would go back in to where he feels safe. What I really wanted to say was don't ask him threatening questions like "why are you sitting here". Just try and talk normally to him like you would any of your other friends. Maybe just hanging out with him would be good - not really saying anything, just being with him. Good luck. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

_{No, it was the other way round, the shy guy asked the friend.} —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.186.107 (talk) 14:53, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes I was asking you not to ask the shy guy such questions. "Why" is the hardest question to answer and most people will find it intimidating. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:19, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Just to add my encouragement, and my good wishes. School can be a truly wretched experience for a person labelled "different", or one who is shy and finds friendships hard to make. At best, those who are lucky enough to have a social circle often don't think of reaching out; at worst, there can be campaigns of sustained and horrible cruelty, with dreadful results. You and your friends are observant enough to see a problem, and kind and imaginative enough to try to help - there are plenty of adults who never reach this stage of maturity. If you do as Tammy says: no pressure, just ordinary friendly interaction, so he knows you regard him as one of your group, then with any luck he'll start to feel safer with you and may include himself in group life. You say he's quite bright - is there some way in which you or a friend could tap into that? Maybe ask for help with a project or assignment in a subject you know he's good at, or a favour connected with his sports skills? It sounds like his self-esteem has taken a battering, so offering him the chance to be useful and needed could be a step in the right direction. I endorse all the advice about being aware of his mental wellbeing (don't be afraid to alert a sympathetic teacher or other adult if you are concerned there's more going on than you can cope with) but helping him to make some genuine friends that he can trust can do him nothing but good. Karenjc 15:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Plug his birthday into this to gain some insight into how he works. Vranak (talk) 16:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Or don't. Either way you'll get nothing out of it. Vimescarrot (talk) 18:18, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

That depends on how literate he is or could become. Vranak (talk) 01:05, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks for the advice I'll just keep doign what I'm doing. He was in our group in chemistry today and we let him do most of the work carrying out a titration, he seemed rather chuffed although slightly embarrased and he tried to decline at first.--92.251.188.7 (talk) 18:25, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I was like that myself at school, and I can't think of much that some random person could have done to help, I simply didn't much like talking, found it difficult and never really had much to say. though I think maybe had I gotten to know some people gradually over a year or two, that may have changed, I certainly find talking to my brother and sister a lot easier than anyone else even now, having known them for so much longer. But of course, the person you are trying to help may be nothing like me. maybe you could try getting them to play chess, perhaps, or some other game that doesn't involve too much talking or running around. 148.197.115.54 (talk) 19:55, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh there are plenty of quiet people around, but this guy meets essentially all the criteria listed at Borderline personality disorder--92.251.188.7 (talk) 21:22, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

If you think your friend may be suicidal, you might want to try this: Prevent a suicide - WikiHow (yeah, whatever, I've done that myself). But don't be intrusive, and don't give away what you think in this case because that would lower his self-esteem even farther. Falling grades may be the result of poor focus, or even reading too much FuckMyLife (see what the psychologist's point of view is on that). In the case of professional help, recommend this only if you're a good friend with the other person, because again this may be perceived as intrusive, and some people simply dislike professional help and psychatrical therapists and all that. If you want to go any further, try introducing him to your other friends. Social alienation prior in school can also be a big factor for how a person interacts with others later in life and also how others think of that person socially. Also, for some inspiration, you might want to read this. ~AH1^(TCU) 01:55, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Used car resale value

Is the market value for a used car (according to Kelley Blue Book or any other generic "blue book") any higher or lower for

• a) Models that are immensely popular and/or long lived like the Honda Civic or Dodge Caravan (in North America)
• b) Models made by major automakers (major as in big players domestically) but were sold in much smaller numbers and/or not produced for many years
• c) Models that are rarely found in the local country but at least somewhat common in another major market (that drives on the same side as the local country) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.148.206.90 (talk) 23:49, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

In the United States, KBB and NADA listings are based on reported resale values from actual transactions. The listings are driven by actual consumer demand, so they should take all the factors you mentioned. caknuck _° needs to be running more often 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)