Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 February 2

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February 2

Accents in poetry

Is there are term for the poetic device whereby a grave accent is added to a syllable (usually "ed") to indicate that it is to be sounded? e.g. "And burnèd is Apollo’s laurel bough". (Accent (poetry) is about something quite different.) Thanks.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:33, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

In looking it up in Google, it sent me to Grave accent#English, which has a discussion of the poetic use, though it doesn't really have a term for it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:03, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I think one needs to distinguish between editorial practice and poetic practice here. In an edition of Shakespeare (for example), an editor might make the meter clear by using burn'd where the meter requires a monosyllable and/or burnèd where it requires a disyllable; but such markings don't necessarily reflect how the word was normally pronounced in Shakespeare's day. (If it was normally pronounced as a disyllable, then Shakespeare's use of the /bɜrnd/ [or /bɜrnt/] pronunciation would be an instance of syncope. If it was normally pronounced as a monosyllable, then his use of the /ˈbɜrnɨd/ [or /ˈbɜrnəd/] pronunciation would be an instance of epenthesis.) Should I, however, who normally say /bɜrnd/, write burnèd in a poem, I would definitely be using the latter rhetorical device—probably for the sake of the meter. Deor (talk) 16:39, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Is there a word?

Intentionally taking the life of a person who wants to live is called “murder.” What is intentionally extending the life of a person who wants to die called? Vejlefjord (talk) 17:59, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

In America the term "extraordinary measures" is sometimes used. Keep in mind that deliberate suicide is illegal in all or most places in the US. That doesn't mean that the doctor, the patient, and the patient's family can't decide ahead of time what constitutes "extraordinary measures". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:42, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

@BB: As per our article on suicide legislation, there is (since 1990) no state of the US which regards suicide as a crime. Physician-assisted suicide is legal in some states. If I read the article correctly, withholding the right to die from a person has been termed a "cruel and unusual punishment". Of course, this term is not exclusively used for the prolongation of the life of a person who wishes to terminate their life. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:48, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

The pro-suicide rights POV (e.g., Justice Stevens' "very interesting opinion") in that article is overwhelming, and the 1990's claim stands in need of a reference. μηδείς (talk) 21:48, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Just a side note, related to the original question. When you use the word "murder", the victim does not necessarily have to want to keep living. In other words, I can murder a person who actually wants to die / wants to be killed / wants his life to end. This does not address your question, but I wanted to point out the discrepancy in the "assumption" of your original post. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:25, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. It has nothing to do, necessarily, with whether the subject wants to die or not. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

To be more precise, homicide is the unlawful taking of another person's life. Homicide amounts to murder when there is intention to take the life (as opposed to the death being caused accidentally for example). The laws of different countries may also define other acts as amounting to murder, such as doing an act so reckless that in the ordinary course of events it would lead to the death of another. — SMUconlaw (talk) 08:50, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

As that article points out, there are both lawful and unlawful homicides. Murder is, by definition, unlawful. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:48, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. Some homicides are indeed lawful. "Homicide" simply means that one human caused the death of another human, whether legally or illegally, whether intentionally or unintentionally. So, a lawful homicide might include self-defense, for example. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Presumably that's why police have a "homicide division" rather than a "murder division". Because there are degrees of homicide, some legally justifiable, some not; some intentional, some due to negligence. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:35, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, homicide just refers to the death of a person other than oneself. How sloppy of me – what I meant to say was that culpable homicide is the unlawful taking of another person's life. — SMUconlaw (talk) 11:09, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

This is purely a matter of the legislation (and, of course, of the terminator´s ethics). If you have ever been to a hospice where some patients are pumped full of morphines to deal with their excruciating pain, if you have ever spent years observing the rapid brain death of of a parent suffering from Alzheimer´s disease, you may reconsider the term "murder". Haneke called it Amour. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:57, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I expect the OP is referring to the recent case in Texas, where a pregnant woman (or what was left of her) was kept "alive" by machinery. The reason the hospital did that was in attempting to follow a poorly-defined Texas law. It took a judge to step in and say that the law did not apply in this case; and presumably the public visibility of this case will induce the Texas legislature to clarify that law. Although that case was not strictly about someone "who wants to die", as the woman was incapable of making such a decision once she went into a coma. The same could be said of Ariel Sharon. Ironically, modern medical technology makes these things possible. In olden times, they would just die and that would be the end of it. It would be interesting to see if the OP has any particular cases he's referring to, or if it's just a general question. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:38, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Why is Google Translate of Japanese so bad?

I frequently use Google Translate for all sorts of languages - I am an administrator on Commons where such things are absolutely necessary. I've noticed it does a decent job with most languages, but it is awful with Japanese, even compared to other non-European languages like Korean. Why is it so much worse with Japanese? Magog the Ogre (t • c) 19:33, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I can't comment specifically on the Japanese, as I can't read the original. But in general the problems I run into with google translate are due to the chunking, how they split up the sentence into phrases. These don't always match the sense of the original. Given Japanese's word order is backwards from the English point of view, and that it drops pronouns when they are obligatory in English, it wouldn't surprise me if they are breaking up words in the wrong groupings. I find when I am translating with a machine translator that it helps to break up sentences like this:

I find

when I am translating

with a machine translator

that it helps

to break up

sentences

like this

Putting the returns between the phrases, and moving the breaks around, hints to the translator how to interpret the sense of your sentence, whether going from X to English or English to X. I also tend to use a third language, such as using tú in Spanish when I want a Du form in German (marked singular you, i.e., "thou") and so forth when the construction I want doesn't exist or i ambiguous in English. Given the extreme similarity of word order between Japanese ad Korean, you might try translating the Japanese into Korean or vice-versa assuming you are familiar, as it sounds, with Korean. Finally, keep in mind, the algorithm, as I understand it matches strings between languages based on matching texts on line. That can explain why The comedian cut up the heckler comes across as "dismembered". Always check for alternative translations, and check your translations by working them backwards again to the original language to see if you get the original wording. See machine translation and Google Translate. μηδείς (talk) 02:35, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

One thing to bear in mind if comparing Japanese to Korean is that Google Translate sometimes (often?) goes via English anyway. Not sure specifically about Japanese-Korean though. 86.128.2.123 (talk) 14:00, 3 February 2014 (UTC)