Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 October 9

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October 9

Old Latin and Greek translation

What does it say in the article on Charles de Lorme under his 1630 portrait in Latin?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 12:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

It's Latin, and it just says so-and-so granted this awesome portrait to Charles who is such a great man etc etc. And there's a bunch of Greek words in it, making a proper translation more difficult, but I'll work on it if you need to know more. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:21, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Its NOT important. Mostly curious. Didn't realize it was Latin (for example). If you don't know, that is alright. I knew it was a portrait of Charles DeLorme done in 1630 by Jacques Callot - which is all I really need to know. Thanks for the info you did provide.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 16:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it says "Jacques Callot, nobleman of Lorraine, at Nancy, 1630, made, vowed, and dedicated this symbolic image to Doctor Charles Delorme, counsellor and regular doctor of the most Christian kings Henry the Great and Louis the Just, most vigorous quaestor of the French mint at Bordeaux, best-trained (I guess; I don't know Greek well enough, but "euschemonestatos" must be some superlative form of "euschemon") primary physician of Lord Gaston of France, adorned with all his own gifts and those of the Medicis..."

I assume it refers to the Medicis since he also served with them, but it could be "his own as well as his medical insignia" or something. It's a play on words, I'm sure. I can't figure out what "observantiae" refers to (but mnemosouion is, I think, the same word in Greek). I also don't know what the very bottom says, maybe "paint the world and all the new and old doctors of Ulm, this head will be in the image of the world", whatever that means.

If anyone else wants to take a stab at it without staring at the picture, it says "D.D. Carolo DeLorme regum Christianissorum Henrici Magni et Ludovici Iusti. Consiliario et Medico ordinario Aerarii Galliae apud Burdegalenses questori Integerrimo Domini Gastonis Franciae Primario Medico euschemonestatou Simbolicam hanc sui Effigiem Mediceis omnibus dotibus ac vere suis adornatam observantiae mnemosouion Iacob Callot nobilis Lotharingiae fecit vovit dicavit Nancei MDCXXX. Pinge orbem medicosque omnes veteresque novosque Vlmaei caput hoc orbis ad instar erit." Adam Bishop (talk) 18:01, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Adam Bishop.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 18:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I also forgot to mention that it seems that Gaston should be the "quaestor" (or the financial official) in charge of the mint at Bordeaux, but that's not what the portrait says, unless I am seriously confused. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

French place names containing the letter “Ŭ”

Are there any French place names containing the letter “Ŭ”? --84.61.131.141 (talk) 18:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

That letter doesn't exist in French. There is an article on it: Ŭ. --Wrongfilter (talk) 18:59, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Why are many French place names misspelled on eo.wikipedia.org? --84.61.131.141 (talk) 19:12, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

You'd have to ask over there. Sorry, I have insufficient Esperanto to be able to locate their reference or help desks for you. Karenjc 19:53, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Can you give an example? I don't see any such misspellings in this list. Marco polo (talk) 21:23, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe to indicate consonantal "ou" (i.e. [w])? AnonMoos (talk) 23:07, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

The software there is set up so that if you type "ux" in the edit window, it shows up as "ŭ" in the saved page. So if you type "Bordeaux" in the edit window it becomes "Bordeaŭ". (Typing "uxx" produces "ux" if I recall correctly.) Is this the kind of thing you mean?--Cam (talk) 00:11, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Digraphs with 'x' are customary for accented letters in Esperanto, where the accents are unavailable: see Esperanto alphabet#X-system. --ColinFine (talk) 22:06, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Not a tyrant or dictator

What would MC in this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11500370 article be called? He is not a tyrant or dictator, since he is nice to some people and has a boss. He seems to have a carrot-and-stick approach: carrot to his loyal supporters, stick to those who might disobey him. 92.15.17.139 (talk) 20:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Benevolent dictator might fit Rojomoke (talk) 23:09, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

God willing

What is GOD WILLING in latin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.47.4 (talk) 21:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Deo volente. Deor (talk) 21:54, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

What is the latin for the english phrase GOD WILLING--81.108.47.4 (talk) 21:55, 9 October 2010 (UTC)tel-me-73-37

I just told you. Deor (talk) 21:56, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

DEO VOLENTE. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:12, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Deo volente is an ablative absolute clause... AnonMoos (talk) 23:10, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

The expression is listed at List of Latin phrases (D). -- Wavelength (talk) 00:57, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

You might also wish to read about Deus vult, but this is a translation of a different nuance of "God willing". Dbfirs 06:41, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Goebbels

Why do the americans pronounce Goebbels are Gorbels? 91.155.81.10 (talk) 23:47, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think they do; however, some do pronounce it as [ɡɝbəlz] or "gurbels", where the mid-retroflex vowel is a rough approximation to a front rounded vowel. The alternative phonetic approximation, in terms of American English sounds, would be [ɡɛbəlz] or "gebbles" (don't know if you like that better...). AnonMoos (talk) 00:01, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

They might be borrowing the pronunciation of the Gorbals. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 00:15, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

This isn't at all uncommon in America, unfortunately. When faced with a foreign name, most Americans try to pronounce it as phonetically as possible, as if it were an English name or word, and without regard for the original pronunciation. Hermann Göring's name is usually pronounced "gairing", in a similar manner to Goebbels' name. This is due in part to the fact that it's usually spelled "Goering" in umlaut-less books. A more recent example I can think of is German president Christian Wulff, whose first name is sometimes pronounced as it would be in English (despite the fact that the German word is pronounced differently), and whose last name is usually just pronounced "wolf" with a "w" sound rather than the "v". A less common mistake is pronouncing ß as a "b" rather than "ss" (for example, Rudolf Heß). Xenon54 (talk) 15:01, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Those are not the pronunciations that an American seeing "Goebbels" and "Goering" would naturally use, which would be more like "go bells" and "go ring". I think they are really attempts to imitate the German pronunciation of the umlauted vowels. Looie496 (talk) 16:00, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right -- whatever it is, "Gairing" is not a spelling pronunciation. In my city, there's a street spelled "Koenig" which is pronounced [keinɪɡ] (spelling pronunciation would be much more likely to be [kounɪɡ]). AnonMoos (talk) 16:07, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Are you from Austin, AnonMoos? It's a characteristic of Texas German (and indeed many dialects of German in Germany, as well as Yiddish) that the front rounded vowels ö and ü get unrounded to e and i. Other examples from Texas include Mueller pronounced "Miller", Gruene pronounced "Green", and Goehmann pronounced [ˈɡeɪmən]. —Angr (talk) 16:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)