Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 April 11

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April 11

Ukrainian town name

Some of my ancestors came from a rather obscure town in the Zhitomir oblast called Pavoloch (Паволоч). Just based on the intuition of someone who's familiar with Russian or Ukrainian, what syllable do you think the stress would be on in that name? --Lazar Taxon (talk) 00:42, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I do not know the answer, but I can refer you to the article Ukrainian phonology and to http://forvo.com/.

Ukrainian Wikipedia has a very short article at uk:Паволоч, and English Wikipedia has a currently red link at List of shtetls.

Category:Wikipedians by language has a link to Category:User uk. -- Wavelength (talk) 03:46, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

This page spells it with a soft sign at the end. There is much information about Pavoloch at this page. See also Zhytomyr Oblast.

I did a Google search for the words "Паволоч радіо", but found nothing audible. -- Wavelength (talk) 04:55, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Here is another informative page. -- Wavelength (talk) 05:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

[I added a currently red piped link (red link) to one of my earlier comments. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:16, 11 April 2009 (UTC)]

List of shtetls lists Drohobych, whose name is said to have a penultimate stress. I do not know how much of an indication that is of whether Pavoloch is similarly paroxytone. -- Wavelength (talk) 23:51, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Is there a god of elections?

There is a god of love, there is a god of war. Is there a god of elections? Or at least a patron saint? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.5.17 (talk) 07:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Not that I could find ... although St. Thomas More ("A Man for All Seasons") is the "patron saint of statesmen and politicians". (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2009 (UTC))

For ancient Greek democracy you could have Peitho goddess of persuasion or Zeus Agoraea meaning Zeus of popular assemblies. St. Chad is sometimes comically referred to the patron saint of disputed elections. meltBanana 12:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

It seems difficult to find such a god, as elections are supposed to be a tool of modern societies, whereas gods are typical of archaic ones. If you ask more generally for deities of democracy, I would certainly vote for the Eumenides. Anyway, as our society seems definitely going back to an irrational stage, I would say that one day there will be such a god, one to pray and to offer sacrifices to, before and after elections. There will be a god also for cell phones and computers, to explain why they work. --pma (talk) 19:47, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

That said pma, we have some fairly modern patron saints: Isidore of Seville patron saint of the internet, Joseph of Cupertino patron saint of astronauts, Saint Michael patron saint of paratroopers and Bernardino of Siena patron saint of advertising and PR. 163.1.176.253 (talk) 20:46, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, your idea of Christian saints seems a good source. There is St. Chad; unfortunately his patronage for elections is only a joke. Talking about saints, let's recall Santa Bona, patron saint of the hostesses [1] (and this is not a (bad sexist) joke, although it looks like, for bona in Italian is a jargon for "attractive/sexy girl"). --pma (talk) 00:31, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Dharma dolls as used in Japanese elections are sort of like that. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 02:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Shifting religious viewpoints, there's always St. Jude. --- OtherDave (talk) 15:58, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Dita Saxova - the movie

With great interest I watched the Czech movie titled "Dita Saxova". Unfortunately, despite the fact that I understand written Czech quite well, I was not able to figure out all the details of conversations. Would somebody be willing to help with a few sound snippets from it?

For example: at 56:12 (PAL timing) the bar tender briefly interrupts the lawyer who is talking about mob in Varnsdorf. What is the bartender saying?

At 52:43, the bartender asks a young guy what he wants to drink and he responds. What is he saying?

I have a few more of these... if somebody is willing to help me I could provide sound/video snippets.

212.14.48.55 (talk) 09:53, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Have you checked whether the film has subtitles for the deaf? Even if they are only in Czech, that should help. Certes (talk) 01:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

It does but they are very inaccurate, skipping a lot of dialogue. Actually I understand more by listening than what they have in writing.

212.14.48.55 (talk) 09:53, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't have a copy of the movie (never seen it, in fact), but if you post the relevant video clips here I can give it a try. — Emil J. 16:19, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Melvin Mouron Belli

Am I correct in assuming that his middle name is pronounced Moo-RAWN, and is the French word for pimpernel? Our article doesn't give a pronunciation, but it states that his mother was partly of Swiss-French ancestry. I just want to be sure that it isn't pronounced like "moron". LANTZY^TALK 19:07, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

If it's a French word, the vowel in the last syllable is more close – /o/ rather than /ɔ/ – and it's nasalized rather than being followed by /n/, but yeah. —Tamfang (talk) 07:52, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Name of Type of Joke

"What's the difference between a seagull catching fish and a naughty dog?" "One flits across the shore." What's the name of this type of joke?--KageTora (talk) 21:41, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

what is the joke, please? Oh.... spoiler: it's a spoonerism 79.122.103.33 (talk) 22:56, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Hence the album by Caravan called Cunning Stunts. Tonywalton ^Talk 23:27, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

KageTora's particular example is a spoonerism, but this type of joke need not involve spoonerism. For example, there's no spoonerism in "What's the difference between a pickpocket and Jimmy Swaggart? — "One snatches watches...". I'm afraid I don't know the name for this particular genre of joke, or if indeed it has a name. —Angr 16:14, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd say this relies on a spoonerism. Seegoon (talk) 03:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

No, because "snatch" and "watch" have different vowels, and a spoonerism is just switching the initial consonant sounds. —Angr 05:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Trains

Getting ready to work on the end of the article: What would be the plural for "Caboose"? Not sure if it pluralizes as does Moose, or if it changes as does Goose? 23:01, 11 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.153.93.240 (talk)

Cabooses is the correct plural. Deor (talk) 23:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

What do you use for your source document? CSX (Eastern US Railroad) uses Cabeese. 174.146.162.50 (talk) 23:20, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Per Caboose it's "cabooses", however Caboose#Etymology states there is "some disagreement". Tonywalton ^Talk 23:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and that paragraph is unsourced. Do you have any reliable sources that the plural is other than cabooses? Deor (talk) 23:38, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I can fax you a page from the CSX maintenance manual. What is the fax number to Wikipedia? 174.152.72.144 (talk) 23:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Caboose#Etymology (not a Reliable source) states 'A less-seriously used pluralization of the word is "cabeese," ... almost universally used in an attempt at humor'. I'd go for cabooses, as does wiktionary. Certes (talk) 01:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I have looked at four Oxfords, three Websters, one Compton, one Chambers and one MacQuarie and not a single one even hints at a plural form. Every one sticks tightly to "n. s". No help there, I am sorry to say. // BL \\ (talk) 03:14, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

The reason most dictionaries don't mention a plural is that the plural is regular: "cabooses". Checking various dictionaries under onelook.com, I find only one that mentions it -- Encarta -- and it says "cabooses". "Cabeese" is a joke or a mistake. --Anonymous railfan, 04:01 UTC, April 12, 2009.

I think 'cabeese' is due to TMRC. Here in the UK, they're called 'guard's vans' anyway. AlexTiefling (talk) 00:20, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I worked in the U.S. railroad industry for 11 years and never heard or saw "cabeese." Googling just now, I have the impression that those using "cabeese" are either railfans or model railroaders. (This is a comment, not a criticism.) --- OtherDave (talk) 16:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)