Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 November 21

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November 21

King (surname)

Who was the first individual with the surname King? I imagine there was a point in history before where having this surname would have been frowned upon by actual kings. KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

The name goes far back into the Middle Ages when most people went entirely unrecorded, so no-one can know for sure who the first man with that surname was. However, "The earliest known bearer of this surname was Aelwine se Cyng who was documented in the Old English Byname Register in 1050 AD" ([1]). From the same source, "The nickname was...used to refer to someone who conducted himself in a kingly manner, or one who had played the part of a king in a pageant, or one who had won the title in a tournament. In other cases it may actually have referred to someone who served in the king’s household." As such it doesn't seem like it would be too objectionable to actual kings, but even if they did frown on it there was nothing they could do about it. Medieval bureaucracies weren't developed enough to allow them to dictate what names ordinary peasants (as the great majority of people were) could have, and in any case why would a king care what some piffling villein's neighbours called him? --Antiquary (talk) 10:04, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Our Surname article says that surnames were in generally use in England "by 1400" so 1050 is an early example. Alansplodge (talk) 11:16, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, if it were a heritable surname it would be a very early example indeed for an Anglo-Saxon, though some Norman families had them before the Conquest. Aelwine se Cyng's moniker was almost certainly the form of surname called a byname. A byname becomes a heritable surname when a son takes it despite it's being inappropriate for him, like a Smith who isn't a smith or a Black who's blond, but in practice it's usually difficult to know when that happens because of the shortage of records. --Antiquary (talk) 15:23, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

The main reason such surnames wouldn't bother English kings, of course, is that they didn't have them. ——SerialNumber54129 14:22, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

"The Chief Defect of Henry King / Was chewing little bits of String..." Alansplodge (talk) 11:16, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

George Bataille and the abyss

Hi, all.

As far as I understand it, this vid essay seems to claim that George Bataille locates the abyss between an object and a redefinition of that object as a tool.

Did he actually say this anywhere? - i can't find it.

The quote comes at about 5.30

Edit: wikipedia isn't letting me link to YouTube. If you're sufficiently interested, the film is called How to Stare into the Abyss, on a channel called Zero Books. -- 09:33, 21 November 2018 Adambrowne666

The little difficuly with Turkey at the head of the Red Sea - 1906

Henry Campbell-Bannerman's report to the King after the Cabinet meeting of 31st January 1906 referred to "the progress of affairs at Algeciras and the little difficulty with Turkey at the head of the Red Sea". What was that little difficulty? DuncanHill (talk) 16:58, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps the Taba Crisis of 1906, which apparently started on 10 January? --Antiquary (talk) 19:02, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

That must be it, thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 20:03, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

References