Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 August 26

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August 26

Video footage of communal exercise

In old videos of life in totalitarian or collective regimes (Nazi Germany, China, former USSR, etc.), a common theme shown was communal exercising - a large field of people all doing calisthenics, for example. I've always wondered about the purpose of those scenes, and the facts behind them. Was the general population required to participate in communal exercise programs or were these just the more health-conscious people getting together to exercise? Did the local governments release that footage to show how healthy and happy their people were, or did opposing governments use that footage to imply how extensively the other governments intruded upon and controlled their citizens' lives? 152.16.188.107 02:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Are you talking about the Nazi Parades? --1ws1 06:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

No, these videos showed what appeared to be regular folks (not soldiers) performing directed, organized exercise. I've seen it in old videos of other nations as well. 152.16.188.107 07:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

It happened in the US and UK, as well. There was a craze for calisthenics, and both children in schools and factory workers could be found doing their jumping jacks in the open air. Geogre 12:04, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I think they are usually shown to show how happy and healthy people are. You can find the same thing in US and UK footage from the period as well. In the early 20th century physical education and so forth became seen as part of the way to a better, stronger society, and synchronized movements of any form (education included) have long been symbols of a vigorous, unified state. The latter makes them especially salient images for communalist societies, which love to show that everybody is singing to the same tune. In the US and UK this national improvement drive also had connections to quasi-eugenic beliefs. --24.147.86.187 22:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

It's still quite common in parts of China, but it's usually not obligatory (now) MWL

Socrates Vs. Solomon 44 and Solomon 49

These are two exerpts from wikipedia's article on Socrates:

1. Socrates stressed that "virtue was the most valuable of all possessions; the ideal life was spent in search of the Good. Truth lies beneath the shadows of existence, and that it is the job of the philosopher to show the rest how little they really know." (Solomon 44)

2. It was not only Athenian democracy: Socrates objected to any form of government that did not conform to his ideal of a perfect republic led by philosophers (Solomon 49),

My question is, "What are Solomon 44 and Solomon 49? I know for a fact that they aren't books in the Bible or Platonic writings. But do they somehow relate to the Solomon in the Bible? And where exactly can the documents or books titled Solomon 44 and Solomon 49 be found? My search has come up entirely empty and I'm thinking whoever authored the Socrates article must have provided an innacurate source.

Aug 26, 2007

--anon.

• They're attempts at MLA citation/"Harvard notation," apparently, but I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the author used inaccurate notes. First, Wikipedia's featured articles have been the subject of gloriously stupid wars over notes, where one side just gives notes and the other demands that everything be a footnote, specifically. The footnoting formatting changed. In fact, some articles had the popcorn of notes all over and then had it all "disappear" when the format fiends changed their stuff. (Go into the Edit mode of the paragraph and look to see if notes are embedded in the text but not displaying. It happens.) Other people have been excitedly cutting out "references" that aren't footnotes, too.
• Now, in that case, it's probably to Robert C. Solomon. I don't know if it's to Introducing Philosophy: A Text with integrated Readings or one of the many others he edited/published. The point is that this is what happens when the foolish little battles happen, and not a sign of bad editing or writing. Geogre 12:02, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The "Solomons" were introduced in an edit that left no clue about which Solomon what. The same edit introduced a "(Gross 2)". I suspect these paragraphs were copied and pasted from another source. In googling for a possible source, I came across the following howler: a "free term paper" entitled "An analysis of Socrates' Oedipus Rex".[1]  --Lambiam 14:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

• Ah. Well, it's probably someone copying from his/her own paper, let's hope, rather than trying to incorporate a copyright violation. I found the Solomon, but the thing is...it's such an absolutely obvious statement (first one) and then such an obviously wrong one (or overstatement, really, because it's Plato who "objects," but not "object" like revolutionary) that I hope they're not circulating lies on the web.
• By the way, I have seen the most astonishing garbage handed in that had been downloaded. The people doing so had gotten every bit of what they had paid for: an F. Geogre 14:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I've had people print out a bunch of web pages and turn that in as a writing assignment. That's the sort of thing that made me change the project for my math for liberal arts majors class from a paper to a presentation. It was just too depressing to contemplate the inability of my college students to write. Thank God I wasn't in the English department. Donald Hosek 01:00, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

In the 8th ed. of Solomon's textbook, page 44 is completely blank, so much so that it doesn't even say "this page has been left blank intentionally." The Mad Echidna 15:02, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The sources cited (and the provenance of these paragraphs) are clarified here: Talk:Socrates/Archive 1#Beliefs Section.  --Lambiam 20:30, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah, and GIGO strikes again. It's sad. All I can say is that I flatly turn around any paper any student gives me that has citations which never required the student to stand up or move about. I allow web sources, but only just, and only as adjuncts. That's some poor research. (Senior paper... in college?) Geogre 20:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Three of the six references mention Newark High School Library, so this may have been a high-school project.  --Lambiam 21:15, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Dixon-Yates contract -- 1950's controversy

WikiProject Reference Desk Article Collaboration This question inspires an article to be created or enhanced: Dixon-Yates contract Please consider contributing

What was the Dixon-Yates contract - 1950's controversy? Please reply with references. Or just redirect the red link to the appropriate article I am supposed to be in. Thanks. --1ws1 06:07, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Googling "Dixon-Yates" turns up a good number of relevant hits. By restricting the search to en.wikipedia.org, I found that it is mentioned three times: once as a requested article, once in Aaron Wildavsky (who did his thesis on the controversy), and once on User:The stuart/Class Notes/Recent American History (1945-1975), where it is summarized as "TVA announces that it dosn't have enough power to power the new atomic facilities in Kentucky, asks for millions from congress to build a new power plant Admin instead supports a project from two private companys, headed by Dixon and yates hence the name "Dixon Yates controversy" congress investigates, Dixon Yates contract given with out competition Becomes Dixon Yates scandal Admin drops the whole thing when Memphis says that its going to build its own power plant." 152.16.188.107 07:38, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[History] The Righteous and Harmonious Society Movement: The Boxer Rebellion

Why did the The Righteous and Harmonious Society Movement become known as The Boxer Rebellion? Why the term "boxer"? 207.69.139.141 07:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

See the second paragraph of Righteous Harmony Society. 152.16.188.107 07:55, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The Dali Lamas Sex Life

Has the Dali Lama ever had sex? Does he have any children? If he doesn't have any children is he allowed to have them? Is he allowed to have a wife? 207.69.139.137 09:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Most Dalai Lamas, including the current, 14th Dalai Lama, were reared and raised entirely by males, and celibacy is taken seriously during their entire lifetime. Tsangyang Gyatso, the 6th Dalai Lama was the exception confirming the rule in the cases not excepted. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:38, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The article on Tsangyang Gyatso states that he is also the only Dalai Lama ever to have been deposed and exiled, which was done 'in response to his uncivil lifestyle'. One supposes that this has rather encouraged all his successors to stick with celibacy! Xn4 21:40, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

song id

Hi guys, I recently heard a song that i've heard many times before, and just couldn't think who it was by or what it was called. It's an electronic/dance song, from around the year 2000, and contains a piano part that i think was featured in the film American Beauty . The song is quite well-known i think. Any help would be appreciated. Dylan-t 11:55, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know but we do have American Beauty: Original Motion Picture Score and American Beauty (soundtrack). Adam Bishop 20:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Zeitgeist

Could somebody please write an article on the documentary Zeitgeist released in 2007. I do not have the knowledge to create a page, or one of the calibre this movie/documentary deserves. This is an amazing film, which is free to watch at zeitgeistmovie.com, and is a mind blowing presentation of how governments use fear and panic to manipulate the populace. I believe it is essential viewing for any free thinking cultured human being and needs a page to further knowledge about it as well as create a base for discussion. I am using this area because i believe i may be able to contact like minded people who believe that truth should be taken as the authority, not authority taken as the truth Gerald121 12:02, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

This is not really a question for the Reference desk. Try Wikipedia:Requested articles instead. Cheers, Skarioffszky 12:45, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The article in question has already been written once, and deleted for not providing any evidence it is notable. The page has since been protected, due to attempts to bring the article back without satisfying the notability guideline. Any new article would need to be written in a sandbox first, and a request made to unprotect the page, before moving the content there. -- 68.156.149.62 15:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Beauty is truth, truth beauty. That is all ye know on Earth and all ye need to know. But, alas, Gerald, it is not; for truth is both nebulous and elusive. Clio the Muse 22:32, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Life expectancy in South Dakota

Could someone help me understand this: According to this list, the life expectancy in South Dakota is 66,6 years - http://www.aneki.com/cities_lowest_life_expectancy.html . Why is this? Colorado tops the list in the oposite side of the scale: http://www.aneki.com/city_life_expectancies.html . Could anyone explain these large variations, despite the fact that they're only separated by one state (Nebraska) geographically.
--Petteroes 18:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

What is terribly fishy is that these lists claim to be per city, but give 6 cities all the lowest value of 66.6, all in South Dakota, after which there is a jump to 68.6. Whatever the source, that can't be right.  --Lambiam 19:11, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

This overview per state of the life expectancy gives 78.0 for South Dakota and 78.4 for Colorado, based on the 2000 census data. Lowest is District of Columbia with 72.6, followed by Mississippi with 73.7. Highest is Hawaii with 79.8. Aloha!  --Lambiam 19:24, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Lambiam! All this probably prove (once again) that researching on the internet is a risky affair :) --Petteroes 19:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Yep.

If you look at the aneki.com pages again, you will see that although the page titles say "cities" with the highest/lowest life expectancy, the column headings on those pages say "counties". If you look up the six counties, you will find that two of them were merged in 1979, which suggests strongly that the data in the table is seriously out of date. Notice that the page does not give a date.

The other thing you will find out is that the five remaining counties (i.e. originally all six) are all adjacent. Since there are only about 30,000 people (as of the 2000 census) living in all five counties put together, it makes sense that whoever tabulated the statistics would have processed them as a group. (In more populous states or districts they would not have done that.) Then whoever produced the stupid table on aneki.com must have failed to realize this and assumed that the average life expectancy applied to all the counties individually.

--Anonymous, August 26, 2007, 19:53 (UTC).

Nice work. The last census in Washabaugh County, South Dakota was in 1970, so the aneki data is at least 37 years old. The earliest available census data appear to be from 1920, so the aneki lists are probably at most 87 years out of date.  --Lambiam 20:15, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

There's a lot more to life expectancy than meets the eye. We all know that it's higher for women than for men. It's easy to forget that at birth it's lower than at any other age. There are endless factors other than geography, but if you look only at geography the picture is never clear. For instance, male life expectancy at birth in Scotland (74.2 years) is lower than in England (76.9 years). However, there are huge variations within Scotland - from 77.7 years in East Dunbartonshire down to 69.9 years in Glasgow... but in the richest areas of Glasgow all life expectancy is higher than in the poorest neighbourhoods of East Dunbartonshire. So read all such statistics with caution! Xn4 21:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Expected age at death always increases with age, but life expectancy (the previous number minus current age) always decreases with age, ceteris paribus. —Tamfang 01:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Also note about these South Dakota counties: Todd is almost entirely within the Rosebud Indian Reservation and its population is 85.6% Native American. Shannon is entirely within the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, pop 94.2% Native American. Mellette is 52.4% Native American. Bennett is 52.07% Native American. These counties are among the very poorest in the United States. Pfly 05:41, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Canadian Joke

i don't get the joke, anyone to explain?

• Why did the Canadian cross the street? To get to the middle.

If you smiled at that joke, you are probably a Canadian, in "The U.S. and us: why Canada became a nation in 1776", The Gazette (Montreal), July 4, 1992, Saturday, Pg. A2 -- 172.173.208.123 22:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

It's always a mistake to try to explain a joke, especially this one, as I am English, not Canadian. Anyway, here goes. 'Middle of the road' is an expression used to denote moderation, or to describe people who have no pronounced tastes, either one way or the other. Whether this is true of Canadians or not I could not possibly say, which is a very 'middle of the road' answer! Clio the Muse 23:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Clio is likely right. Canada is known to be a country of the the middle, with very few extremists (religious, political, academic, or what-have-you), and even fewer enshrined extremes. This is also a take-off on the classic "Why did the chicken cross the road?" "To get to the other side." I am a Canadian, and I did laugh. Bielle 23:19, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Canadians are also known for being very nice and slow to anger, slow to amuse, slow to ... Therefore, it's also a personal attribution. I.e. a Canadian would like to be in the middle personally, as well as politically -- not too hot or cold. Sort of like, "How can you tell a Finnish extrovert?" "He stares at your shoes" (from Garrison Keillor). (Yes, though, a political joke.) Geogre 10:59, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Reminds me of some ancient joke I heard once, about how every Canadian kitchen contains a small appliance called a blander. Gzuckier 15:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, guys and gals. While I take full responsibility for my contributions to the expansion of this thread, let's close the door on ethnic jokes before we get into unkind territory. Bielle 17:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Certainly, but, so far, these have all been cultural or political satires, and they've generally been Horatian satire rather than Juvenalian. There is a big difference between an ethnic joke and political satire. (My own religion has "How many Episcopalians does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Three: one to screw it in, one to mix martinis, and one to say how much better the old one was." The idea there is, of course, not only a bit of Episcopalians being wealthy, but also the argument over the 1970 Book of Common Prayer revision and the ire it drew. Those who conform to the satirized population can laugh at their own excesses, and those who do not can laugh at how they were pushed/prodded by their co-religionists. The same is true of the light cultural satire in the Canadian moderation joke.) Geogre 20:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

On the same theme as the original joke... you may have heard the expression "As American as apple pie". In 1972 Peter Gzowski held a contest for a corresponding phrase, "As Canadian as _____". It was won by a 17-year-old student (since deceased) with the marvelously apt answer... oh, think about it yourself for a minute and then follow the link to see. --Anonymous, August 27, 2007, 22:18 (UTC).

There's also the old joke about the American, Frenchman, and Canadian asked to write reports about elephants -- The American came up with "Elephants for Fun and Profit", the Frenchman with "The Love Life of the Elephant", and the Canadian with "Elephants: A Federal or Provincial Responsibility?" -- AnonMoos 11:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

(TOPIC DRIFT WARNING!) This reminds me of the description of some Canadian politican as "a centrist: he believes the sun rises in Quebec and sets in Ontario." —Tamfang 01:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)