Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2014 June 21

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June 21

Video game as an art form

I'm looking for examples to counter the argument that "video games may contain art, but can never become a true art form in itself". Please note that I understand that this reference desk is "not a forum for discussion", and don't want this to be hatted as such; so, examples only please. Perhaps with a brief explanation as to why you believe the example qualifies (?). The example(s) must go beyond just being artful, artistic or "artsy". Anyway,... I came up with these examples, but my reasoning (which I shall refrain from expounding upon) is not ironclad: Osmos , Eufloria , Trauma.   —71.20.250.51 (talk) 02:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Jason Rohrer is the patron saint of art games. See Passage (video game) in particular. He (and others) engaged Roger Ebert in a debate on this very question. Ian Bogost and Rod Humble have done good work highlighting game mechanics as a source of creativity/art in their own right. Wikipedia also has Video games as an art form, an article that touches on some of these, including Ebert. --— Rhododendrites ^talk |  02:51, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

PS: Art game#List of arthouse games --— Rhododendrites ^talk |  02:54, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Note that many things we think of as artistic, at times, now, were not thought of that way when new. Movies are one example, where early on they might have just showed something like a train pulling into a station or a woman dancing, with no story. Comic books are another example, which have now transitioned into graphic novels. A more recent example of this transition is graffiti. StuRat (talk) 05:55, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Here are a few Cracked.com articles that could be of interest: 10 Video Games That Should Be Considered Modern Art, 5 Things Video Games Do Better Than Any Other Forms of Art, Why Ebert Is Wrong: In Defense of Games as Art. Matt Deres (talk) 13:15, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank y'all for the links-n'stuff; the Cracked.com article "5 Things..." is especially useful. However, what I'm looking for is something that might convince a foofoo art-snob through gameplay rather than with words.  —71.20.250.51 (talk) 23:18, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

It's all about Passage. --— Rhododendrites ^talk |  00:07, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that might appeal to/convince some art snobs. But only if they were open-minded enough :) To the OP: Another try might be Flow_(video_game) or games from that maker. Depending on how they feel about the importance of pattern in art, Bit.Trip series might be worth a look. You can also find interesting philosophical treatises written about katamari damacy. I personally find Dungeon_Crawl_Stone_Soup to be arty, but I wouldn't think it would convince anybody who generally denies games are art. Brothers:_A_Tale_of_Two_Sons had a very interesting way of presenting emotions through gameplay, but it's near the end. Another thing to mention to anti-game snobs is that not all art is "high art" -- whatever those terms mean... in that light, it might be nice to ask these people what things can count as art. Are novels art? Even trashy novels? Can movies be art, or comic books, or performances? Can they specify what feature it is of a videogame that disallows it from being art? Getting them to define terms will help the conversation, and help you to determine if there's any consistency or rationale to their claims ;) SemanticMantis (talk) 18:38, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I thought that the series Extra Credits may have done an episode on this, but on a skim through the List of Extra Credits episodes, the closest I could find was a justification that games being "art" doesn't mean they aren't fun. That said, I remember the point being made in a number of their episodes, and the presentation is excellent. MChesterMC (talk) 09:00, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Scatman John and stuttering

I've always wondered, as Scatman John was a stutterer, how did he manage to sing all those scat songs, which require saying the exact number of words and syllables at the exact speed required, and which apart from the nonsensical scat include quite complex English grammar? Scatman John said himself in one of his songs "Everyone says that the Scatman stutters but doesn't ever stutter when he sings." Was that literally true? JIP | Talk 16:08, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

For reasons that may not be entirely understood, stuttering goes away when people are singing, or sometimes reciting poetry or reading from a pre-written text (it DOES vary from person to person, so not everyone "loses" their stutter in this way, but enough do for it to be a noted phenomenon). I know several people who stutter badly, but have no stutter when singing. See this google search which has several decent articles mixed in there which discusses the phenomenon. IIRC, the most prominent theory is that different parts of the brain control extemporaneous or conversational speaking and memorized speech (of which singing is one), and that the stutter represents a neurological problem only in one of them. The actor James Earl Jones is a chronic stutterer, however he doesn't stutter when acting. You can find interviews with him where he discusses how he was able to overcome his stutter and how acting itself has helped that. --Jayron32 18:27, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

I think rehearsed speech or songs are easier for stutterers. In normal talking, people formulate the next thing to say while still pronouncing the first words. This is actually a rather difficult thing to do, but most of us do have this ability. In stutterers these two trains of thought collide and one derails. But recalling the next words while pronouncing the current set may be a simpler task than formulating words at that time. StuRat (talk) 13:50, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

movies filmed in louisiana

Cbook3 (talk) 18:51, 21 June 2014 (UTC)why isn't The Blob listed in movies filmed in Louisiana.

Because you haven't fixed it yet. Wikipedia is made by people like you - so go make it already! Matt Deres (talk) 19:03, 21 June 2014 (UTC)