Wikipedia:Peer review/Hiram Wesley Evans/archive1

Hiram Wesley Evans

This peer review discussion has been closed.
We've listed this article for peer review because we would like some feedback on prose and comprehensive before bringing the article to FAC. This is admittedly an unpopular topic, so we'd like to emphasize the need for neutrality in the article and ask that reviewers pay particular attention to emotive language and the like; some such language may have slipped through our filters.

Thanks,  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:02, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't have much time, but I'll give this a quick peer review if it will help. Best. Midnightblueowl (talk) 12:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Introduction:

• "white supremacist group Ku Klux Klan" – would "white supremacist group, the ku Klux Klan (KKK)" be preferable.
  • "The" is in front of "American", so it is implied to be "the ... Ku Klux Klan". To have "the American white supremacist group the Ku Klux Klan" seems awkward. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Tweaked the wording a little to avoid the issue, hope this works. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:27, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Why no mention of his class background ? Many historians would surely argue that this was an important factor.
• Perhaps briefly summarise his post-Klan life and death at the end of the second paragraph ?
  • What little we've been able to dig up seems to be in the lede. That he commented on the Klan as late as 1949 doesn't seem important enough for the lede. Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I don't think there's much of significance there to add. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• If you link to Unionism, I'd also link to communism too.
  • For regularity, sure. Linked Catholicism too. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Early life and educaiton:

• Again, no mention of his class or socio-economic background. Considering that his father was a judge then I'd suggest that he was presumably middle-class?
  • We'll see if a source uses a class definition. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I presume as much, I don't recall seeing a source mention class explicitly though, I really had to dig to find what we have now. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "In addition, he was a freemason, eventually becoming a thirty-second-degree mason, and attended a Disciples of Christ church.[7]" Should we capitalize "freemason" ? I think that this sentence could be better phrased, perhaps to "A practitioner of the Protestant form of Christianity, he attended a church belonging to the Disciples of Christ denomination. In addition, he was a practising Freemason, eventually rising to the thirty-second degree within the brotherhood."
  • Partially adapted your phrasing. Don't think we need to explicitly state that Protestantism is a branch of Christianity. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Agree, wording looks good now. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Do we know which Masonic lodge he belonged to ?
  • Haven't seen any of this in the sources I've looked at. Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
    • No, the ones I saw were silent about the lodge. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:21, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Initial Klan service:

• Perhaps we could include a sentence or two detailing what the Klan is, a little about its history, etc ? State what its purpose was, and which minorities – i.e. blacks, homosexuals, Catholics, Jews etc – it despised.
  • The minorities bit is a bit further down, but I agree that a bit of historical context would be nice. Added. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "When he was elected, the chapter had recently received a "self-ruling charter" from the Atlanta-based Klan leadership and was the group's largest chapter" – the word "chapter" is used twice in one sentence; could we use a synonym for the second usage ?
  • How's this? Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
    • That looks good. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:59, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "In 1921, Evans was appointed the "great titan" (executive) of the "Realm of Texas" and led a successful membership drive" – again, this sentence could be rephrased with a little more eloquence; how about "In 1921, Evans was appointed to the position of "great titan" (executive) of the "Realm of Texas" and proceeded to lead a successful membership drive for the state's Klan."
  • I like it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Link to lynching; many readers may be unfamiliar with the concept.
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "Klan-backed political campaign" – either "campaigns" or "campaigning"
  • Chose "-ing". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "brutal acts of violence" – "brutal" is a bit of a POV word, and I think it should be removed in this instance. Not everyone might agree that such acts of violence were "brutal".
  • Is "brutal" in the source, Mark? I don't think I have access to that one. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Removed, the reader will probably make that connection anyway. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:59, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "with local Klan leadership" – would "leaderships" be preferable ?
  • How's "leaders"? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Early National Leadership:

• Link to Bolshevik.
  • WP:MOSQUOTE is against that. Mark? Which do you think should take prominence? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
    • I prefer to avoid that kind of link, but I'm often a lone voice on such issues :) Mark Arsten (talk) 17:59, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Somewhere here we could stick in a link to White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.
  • As a see also perhaps? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "To Evans, whiteness and Protestantism were equally valued, and sometimes conflated:[27] he said the Klan supported the "uncontaminated growth of Anglo-Saxon civilization",[26] maintaining that white Protestants had the exclusive right to govern the U.S. because of their descent from early colonists,[28] whom he described as fleeing Europe for the United States to escape its societal bounds" – this sentence is a bit long; I suggest dividing it up into two.
  • Split. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "a mix of right- and left-wing policies" – economically right and left wing, or socially ? This could be expanded, if the sources permit it.
  • Don't have the sources. I think there's a "political" implied there. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Changed "policies" to "political positions", I think that reads a bit better. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:32, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "science-based ideas" – "ideas with a scientific basis" ?
  • Based in science? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• link to Catholic Church
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "Catholic church, in alliance with Jews and non-white protestant group" – Capitalise "church" and "protestant".
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "thus blurring the separation of church and state" – perhaps expand with ", a core tenet of the U.S. constitution", as non-American readers might be a little perplexed as to why Evans would care about this church-state separation considering his Protestant beliefs.
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "rather than focusing on the Southeastern United States as it had in the past" – perhaps "as it had done in the past."
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "Evans appointed Stephenson" – maybe remind readers who Stephenson was, as he was only fleetingly mentioned previously in the article.
  • I think this should do. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "Leonard Joseph Moore of Mcgill University" – who was Moore ? A historian ? A fellow Klan member? This could do with clarification.
  • Historian. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:42, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "and denounced acts of terrorism committed" – "terrorism" is almost always a POV word (one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter); I'd suggest replacing it with "violence".
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "ultimately unable to sway public opinion in favour of the Klan." ?
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Internal conflicts:

• "Klan conflicts that that gained" – remove one of the "that"s.
  • Dur... done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "he and a group of grand dragons" – elsewhere, we capitalised "Grand Dragon", so I'm guessing we should do so here...
  • I think here it's a generic. Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I would leave it uncapitalized, though it is tricky. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:32, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Should the reader be reminded who Clarke was ?
  • Done, but it can be removed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "involve the Klan in politics" – by its very nature, the Klan has always been political, in that it espoused an ideology; perhaps here we should refer to "electoral politics" ?
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Briefly mention what the Knights of Columbus are, otherwise the reader might think that they are some sort of Klan offshoot or something.
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "in the heavily-Catholic borough of Carnegie, Pennsylvania" ?
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "under his leadership the Klan's northern supporters had begun to rival those in the south" – in what way did they rival them? Numerically? Also, should "south" be capitalised ?
  • I think in numbers. Can't think of a way to rephrase this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "skilled campaigner and demagogue,[61] and remained" < add in that comma.
  • Don't think it's necessary, but may help in parsing. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "Evans avoided publicly clashing with him, fearing that it would hurt the candidacies of Klan-backed politicians:[59] Stephenson was closely involved in the gubernatorial candidacy of Indiana Klan-member Edward L. Jackson,[62] and the Klan saw significant electoral success in that state in 1924; after these victories, Stephenson showed further disdain for Evan" – a ":" followed by a ";" all in one sentence. Needs dividing up into two sentences.
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "create a women's Klan organization, but Evans established a women's group and sued him" – perhaps a smoother alternative would read "a parallel white supremacist organization for women, but Evans proceeded to establish a women's group and sued him"
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "abandon his claim to Klan leadership" – "abandon the latter's claim..."
  • Done — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Growth and political activism:

• "Klan publications credited their launch of a printing plant and cuts in the cost of robe production with dramatically lowering expenses" I don't understand what this sentence is trying to say, could you rewrite it?
  • I gave it a shot. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
• "Although previous Imperial Wizards had lived in lavish properties, Evans initially settled in an apartment after his promotion" – why the "Although"; this sentence doesn't seem to fit together well either.
  • I disagree here, as it contrasts the "lavish properties" with an apartment (which is generally, although not always, less lavish). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "Rory McVeigh of the University of Notre Dame argues that this growth was owing to the Klan's exploitation of a "favorable political context",[72] particularly one in which privileged Americans were fearful after increases in suffrage" – Who is McVeigh; a historian ? This "growth" in what, membership ? Suffrage for whom; women ?
  • McVeigh is a sociologist, growth. May be suffrage of a general kind, not sure. Is the source more explicit, Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Well, presumably he was referring to the women's suffrage, looking back at the source, though, that was kind of a digression from his main point. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:21, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• The word "Klan" is used repeatedly in the final paragraph here; try introducing some synonyms.
  • Tried to do this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Decline:

• "alleging lurid misdeeds" –, "lurid" is POV
  • Is "lurid" in the sources, Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Removed, I think most readers will see kidnappings and lynchings as lurid anyway--no need to hit them over the head with it. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "to vote against a bill supporting a proposed world court" &ndash can we link to a Wikipedia article on that bill ?
  • Not the bill, but we have Permanent Court of International Justice. Do you think that's the right one, Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, that would be the right one. I'll take another look at our wording vs the source. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Changes in focus:

• link "materialistic" and "liberalism", because both word have multiple meanings.
  • Linked "materialistic". Not sure which liberalism is meant. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• why capitalize "Communism" and "Unionism" ?
  • Removed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Downfall:

• Maybe rename "Downfall and death" ?
  • I'd consider death part of one's downfall (like I argued in a paper on Sitti Nurbaya back in college), but I would be open to reconsidering. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Elsewhere we capitalize "South"; any reason why not here?
  • Done. Mark, do you agree with these changes? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Who is Chester L. Quarles ? A historian ?
  • Professor of Legal Justice / Studies. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• "The Klan, despite fears that it would regain full force after the conclusion of World War II" – in this context, the use of "fears" seems POV
  • Changed to "concerns" — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Do we have any more information on Evans' post-Klan life, a significant span of time that isn't even touched on in this article...
  • Well, he was in his 60s and 70s then, so it's not too surprising that he wasn't very active around this time. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Do we know what Evans died of ?

• This is in response to both questions: I've looked through Questia, Google News Archive, Google Books, and Highbeam and have been unable to find much. He would have been 60 or so at the time, so its likely he just tried to live peacefully. Old age strikes me as a likely reason for his death. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:10, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Reception:

• This section could definately do with expansion, if the sources permit this. Perhaps refer to those historical studies of the Klan that refer to Evans.
• Possibly rename "Reception and legacy" ?
• Are Horowirz and Jenkind historians ?
  • Yes. — Crisco 1492 (talk)

Notes:

• Why the use of only one note ? I believe that this single piece of information would be better simply incorporated into the article ?
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Bibliography:

• Why link to certain publishers and not others?
  • I linked to those which have articles. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• There seems to be a lot of books here which have not been correctly capitalized.
  • Standardized title case. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:59, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Whoever wrote this article deserves a hearty pat on the back for doing such an excellent job in putting it together. I hope that you find my comments to be constructive and useful,and wish this article well in attaining FA status, which I believe that it ultimately deserved to do. If anyone wants to return the favour, they could have a peruse of an short article I currently have awaiting peer review, Islam: The Untold Story. All the best. Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for all the feedback, I'll let you know if we have any questions. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

Lede

• "their headquarters". While the meaning is very clear, technically you have not referred to the Klan using a plural noun. Suggest "Klan headquarters".

• Agree, okay. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "He resigned his position with the group" I assume the construction company, to which you referred in the immediately previous sentence? (not)

• Definitely not. Made clearer. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "The next year, Evans faced accusations of accepting no-bid government highway contracts ... " If I read what is said ahead in the article, the accusation was that he influenced the Highway Board into accepting his company's bid without competition. I do not read the lede here to completely state what is the article.

• "in return for supporting a politician in Georgia" sounds like "influence" to me. Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "illusive". I had to look this up to be sure. Are you sure on this? The membership gains existed, they simply didn't last. Maybe "transitory"?

• Agree, changed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Early life

• "The son of a Hiram Martin Evans," I would strike the "a".

• Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Initial Klan service

• "Imagined as a continuation ... " Needs its own sentence.

• Changed the semi-colon to a period. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "in which capacity". Somewhat stilted, can you rephrase?

• How's this?

• Where multiple footnotes are used, they should be in numerical order.

• Done in this section. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Early national leadership

• "discord would ensue within the organization" To high-faluting. This is the Klan, it should be said in an earthier way, within encyclopedic limits, of course.

• "there would be much discord"? The source doesn't explicitly say "in-fighting". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "However, by the end of their feud" You do not say how long the legal battle continued.

• Added. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• Consider dividing a few of the long, semicolon-joined sentences, which are often made longer by internal footnotes.
• I think that people will get what he meant by "Nordic" without the need to mention the Southern and Eastern Europeans.

• Changed, but the explanatory note has been kept hidden. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "Although Evans lived in parts of the Southern U.S. with few Catholics" I would omit this phrase, it's a little bit lecture-like. You're getting on your high horse and telling us he had no rational reason to be anti-Catholic, but there's no need to. The reader will get it without this phrase.

• Hidden. I find it interesting to note, however. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "were becoming increasingly active in politics" Shouldn't it be "was"?

• Right, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• " a key tenet of the country's constitution." I would omit. You seem to be setting up Evans to be laughed at, ha ha, KKK guy cares about the Constitution. Let his wrongheaded views and actions speak for themselves.

• That was actually added per the above comments. Would a reader from England understand the importance of separation of church and state in the US? Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "worked on a series of changes, advertised as reforms, to the Klan structure and worked" ... too much "worked".

• And not enough play... Fixed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Internal conflicts

• "After Grady dismissed a Klan-backed bill" Are you saying he struck down a law (not a bill, probably?) in his judicial capacity? This needs to be made clearer.

• Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "Stephenson's proclivity for ostentation irritated Evans." Someone else seems to have such a proclivity. Can the propensity for polysyllables be less pronounced?

• Showing off? Posturing? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "gubernatorial candidacy" I would preface with "successful"

• Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk)

• " where the lawyer's murder had received less publicity." Then Atlanta? How is that relevant to where you establish a national headquarters and wouldn't the publicity follow in short order anyway?

• Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Growth

• A mention of the actual membership in the first paragraph would be good.

• Done, although there is no concrete number. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• " national offices" Being picky, Senator from Texas is not a national office.

• Seems Mark got that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "the earlier, more violent days of the Ku Klux Klan" I imagine the reference is to the Forrest days. However, you've stated in the article that the Second Klan was a new organization, not deriving from the Forrest organization "the group had been established five years previously". I see an inconsistency.

• Not necessarily, as Simmons had a bit of a violent streak himself. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "As the Klan attempted to portray itself ... they ... " Perhaps substitute "its leaders" or similar for "they".
• "education advocacy" ??

• Advocating / promoting improvements in education. Can't think of another way to phrase it. Mark? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "He supported the creation of the federal Department of Education," That happened under Carter, I remember it. Hmm.

• Perhaps a as it could not be the exact same... Thoughts? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "Apart from fundamental Klan issues, local groups often embraced varying political ideologies; Evans risked alienating members by insisting on specific political stances." Google translate from wonkspeech says that this means that since the main point of agreement among Klan members was doctrine, taking a stance on political matters meant angering some part of his membership. If that's true, I would say so more clearly.

• How's this? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "presidential candidate Oscar Underwood". He was Alabama's favorite son, who over 103 ballots became famous because of Alabama's position on the roll call vote. Does that make you a presidential candidate?

• He was a Democratic candidate for the president. What's the proper term for this? Like Hillary Clinton in 2008. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• Any connection between Evans and Bryan's desire not to have the Democrats condemn the Klan?

Decline

• Other scandals emerged, further damaging ... had seen strong growth ... the state saw corruption scandals ... Evans' request was poorly received ... encountered difficulties." More activity (and variety) on on the part of your verbs would be good.

• "alleging misdeeds including participation in kidnappings and lynchings" A comma perhaps?

• Look's like Mark got that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "Klan's power. About 30,000 of their members" Again, you seem undecided as to whether to treat Klan as a plural noun.

• Look's like Mark got that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Changes in focus

• "The New Deal" question capitalization of "The".

• Agree. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• " This rhetoric did not significantly increase the Klan's power or popularity." This reads like sarcasm. I would rephrase. It's a bit unclear what you mean like this, as you have just described a Klan in free fall.

• Look's like Mark got that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• "Americanist" Needs definition or link.

• Linked. — Crisco 1492 (talk)

Downfall

• Suggest division of first paragraph into at least two paragraphs.

• Did it, one for general information and one for the Catholic angle. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• Why did Colescott shoulder Evans' responsibilities? What was Evans doing?

Reception (perhaps better section heading would be "Appraisal")

• Can you give a couple of quotes from contemporaries who were not opponents?

• Is this preferable? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:37, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

That's all I got. Watch the tendency to complicated words and sentence structures. Also watch the tendency to the passive voice and similar constructions. Aside from that, it's quite good.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:49, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• Edit conflicted twice on the article, my notes above may not apply. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:21, 9 October 2012 (UTC)