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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 30 May 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award edit

Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Bluesatellite (talk) 04:47, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets WP:FL requirements. Bluesatellite (talk) 04:47, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments
  • "Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award (also known as Video Vanguard Award and Lifetime Achievement Award)" => "The Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award (also known as the Video Vanguard Award and the Lifetime Achievement Award)"
    • Articles added.
  • "profound impact to" => "profound impact on" (this goes for the infobox too)
    • Preposition changed.
  • "The Beatles and director Richard Lester were the first recipients of Video Vanguard Award at the inaugural VMA for "essentially inventing the music video."[5] At the same night, David Bowie was also the first solo performer to receive the award...." - all of this needs re-writing. Firstly, the Beatles and Lester were not the first recipients of the award, the Beatles, Lester and Bowie were all the first recipients, as they all won the same award at the first awards ceremony. Even if the Beatles and Lester were given their award slightly earlier in the night, it's highly tenuous to list them as the first winners and Bowie as the second given that it happened on literally the same night. It's also pointless to note that Bowie was the first soloist to win, given that he won at the very first ceremony.
    • Sentences rewritten.
  • "who previously had won the 1988 throphy" - trophy is spelt wrong. Also, it would be better worded as "who had previously won"
    • Done
  • " in the MTV's 10th anniversary short film" => " in MTV's 10th anniversary short film" (the channel is not called "the MTV")
    • Done
  • "Guns N' Roses, the 1992 honoree" => "Guns N' Roses, the 1992 honorees" (there is more than one person in Guns N' Roses)
    • Done
  • "Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award had been presented in eight VMA shows" => "The Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award had been presented at eight VMA shows"
    • Done
  • "before it was renamed to the Lifetime Achievement Award (2003) for Duran Duran and the Video Vanguard Award (2006) for director Hype Williams."
    • Done
  • "the award was restored with his name in 2011." => "his name was restored to the award in 2011"
    • Done
  • "a documentary about the alleged child sexual abuse by Jackson" => "a documentary about alleged child sexual abuse by Jackson"
    • Done
  • "Since its inception, Video Vanguard Award has been awarded " => "Since its inception, the Video Vanguard Award has been awarded "
    • Done
  • "with most of them being American and British origins" => "with most of them being of American or British origin"
    • Done
  • "nine acts has also won" => "nine acts have also won"
    • Oh God, lol. Done!
  • Any note that just says "Presented by [person]" should not have a full stop, as it isn't a complete sentence. Obviously if there are other sentences after it, you need the full stop.
    • Done
  • Refs against Lester/Beatles are not in correct numerical order
    • Rearranged
  • "Bowie was the first solo performer to receive the honor." - again, pointless to state this, as it was the very first ceremony.
    • Removed
  • "Mulcahy is the director" => "Mulcahy was the director"
    • Done
  • "He was later honored with Video Vanguard Artist of the Decade Award in 1990" => "He was later honored with the Video Vanguard Artist of the Decade Award in 1990"
    • Done
  • "The honor began to be renamed Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award" => "The honor was renamed Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award" ("began to be" suggests it was renamed gradually over a long period of time, which isn't true)
    • Done
  • In 2006, you should note the different title, to be consistent with the row above
    • Added
  • "The award was renamed again as Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award" => "The award was renamed again to the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award"
    • Done
  • Refs:
    • For ref 3, the publisher should be Grammy Awards (plural)
    • Ref 7 - do not show title in all caps
    • Same for ref 32
    • And ref 33
      • All refs corrected
  • Think that's it from me -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comment from Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:13, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
*Comment: Maybe you can add Taraborrelli' comments about a "background" for the name of this award that reached attention of "reliable sources" like USA Today and this can be a question of WP:NPOV. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 02:51, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Apoxyomenus: I'm aware that biographer J. Randy Taraborrelli reported that this award naming had something to do with MJ's "jealousy" of Madonna receiving MTV Artist of the Decade award. However, since Taraborrelli is the only source who told this, I'm not really sure whether it warrants inclusion on this article. I'm also afraid of a tiring fan battle between those singers. If you believe it must be included, do you have any suggestion of a neutral prose? Bluesatellite (talk) 10:23, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I pretty understand your concern about a possible "fan battle" (it's a "possibility"), and this is just one of the reasons why we need to avoid sensationalism in writing this part. And as far as I know, Taraborrelli can be used as a source in Wikipedia. Despite beging apparently "the only one" with that claim, certainly, his suggestion received coverage of several contemporary references, e.g USA Today, Washington Post and even, outside English-speaking sources, like this reference from ABC (newspaper) to mention few examples. Also, be advised many of current "commentaries" are just one-point of view. This is other one and possibly, received more support of sources that many of the others. So, i don't know why hide this fact. My 2¢ is something like this: "In his book Michael Jackson: The Magic and the Madness, Taraborrelli suggests the name of this award came of Jackson's idea presented to MTV after Madonna receiving MTV Artist of the Decade award in 1989...[...] (and in case if is necessary): 'His comment received coverage of several references: 1, 2, 3 etc." --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:36, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. There is consensus that J. Randy Taraborrelli is not a "good" source for the Michael Jackson articles. Editors question some of the controversial claims in Taraborrelli's writings, and conclude that these claims should not be used unless corroborated by other reliable sources.— Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:38, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ping @Apoxyomenus:... I'm really neutral here. I have no problem with or without that Tarraborelli report. Bluesatellite (talk) 04:46, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Akhiljaxxn: I see it, seems like in regards to Taraborrelli's biography on Jackson, mostly is a issue about his health disinformation and his public image. I'm ok with that consensus, not problem. However, we can see other authors like Chas Newkey-Burden and his book bringing information about this award without having using Taraborrelli's reference. So he isn't the "only one" with that claim. @Bluesatellite: I understand your "neutral POV" on this and personally, I don't pretend anything except have even more completeness and inclusion in this list with all sides of information. I'm not a judge of the information in this part and I can only make a suggestion since we have references beyond Taraborrelli source, even (for Akhiljaxxn's concern on this). Apoxyomenus (talk) 05:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Apoxyomenus: I've already added one sentence to accommodate your input. What do you think, is it OK now? Bluesatellite (talk) 06:15, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bluesatellite: I don't see any problem, hasn't a sensationalist writing style. So it's OK. Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:13, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I made a few fixes and am now happy to support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support- great work!..Akhiljaxxn (talk) 08:22, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very well done overall, but it's a shame that we couldn't get a picture of the actual award. I assume they were all copyrighted. ~ HAL333 23:01, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Good job, I could not find anything more that requires improvement. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:13, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from User:SNUGGUMS

There's some work to be done with the media use, which hopefully can get resolved soon. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 16:19, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for giving time reviewing the article, SNUGGUMS. Let me know if anything else needed to be fixed. Bluesatellite (talk) 02:37, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely looking better. The problem with your Timberlake replacement idea is that its file source links to a 2013 picture of him. As for the Red Hot Chili Peppers, you could use File:Red Hot Slane.jpg. Since your suggestion for Beyoncé sadly is marked as "All rights reserved", let's try something else like perhaps File:Beyonce - The Formation World Tour, at Wembley Stadium in London, England.jpg. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:54, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@SNUGGUMS: RHC, Justin, Beyonce changed. Bluesatellite (talk) 03:16, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This has my support following sufficient improvements. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Source review and query – The formatting and reliability of the sources both look okay, and the link-checker tool shows no problems, so the source review is a pass. While I'm here, did they keep Jackson's name in the award title? I remember seeing an ad for the last MTV Music Video Awards that said Missy Elliott was receiving the Video Vanguard Award, which didn't mention Jackson's name, and thought it was possible that they took his name out after the controversies surrounding him gained publicity. Have you seen anything in sources to that effect or am I off base here? Giants2008 (Talk) 23:17, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Giants2008: MTV played it safe, they never made any official confirmation regarding the award naming.[2][3][4] The VMAs website lists it as video vanguard award, but Missy Elliot herself called it "Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award" in her acceptance speech. Whichever is official, I personally think "Video Vanguard Award" is more common. Bluesatellite (talk) 00:29, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • If there's nothing in reliable sources confirming a name change, then I don't think any renaming is necessary for FL status, although I do suggest keeping an eye on sources in the future to see how the title is handled. Giants2008 (Talk) 20:11, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 03:12, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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