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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of memoirs by first ladies of the United States/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 24 August 2021 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of memoirs by first ladies of the United States edit

List of memoirs by first ladies of the United States (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Eddie891 Talk Work 23:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've been working on this on and off across the past few months or so. I think it is more or less at FL level, though it's been rather a while since I worked on lists. I found the topic super interesting, and hope you will too. I've created or rewritten articles on 10 of the memoirs in addition, increasing the proportion of articles substantially. Any comments welcome. Eddie891 Talk Work 23:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – Pass edit

A fascinating list! Doing this now. Aza24 (talk) 00:00, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Formatting
  • Right now there are three different ways of formatting dates in the refs—they should be standardized to one or the other
    • this should have gotten them
  • ref 7 missing retrieval date
    • Removed ref, it's cited in the other sources (which came out after the release)
  • ref 1 should be in a template like the others
    • Converted to cite news, which is what I think you're looking for
  • the Guardian should be capitalized ('The)
    • Done
  • Hmm pretty sure "AP NEWS" should be "AP News"—maybe just do "Associated Press" to be safe?
    • Done
  • ref 9 missing author
    • added
  • the ", 1962" seems to be missing from the title of ref 12
    • Added
  • Deadline should probably be the "work" for ref 7
    • Cut as mentioned above
  • Recommendations:
    • Put the further reading into a template so the formatting is the same as the books in the refs
      • Done
    • Perhaps put Reuters as the author for ref 8 since it's clear that its not just an NBC staff member writing it?
        • Converted to cite news, work=Reuters via= NBC News. Does that work?
          • Yeah that works too, good idea!
    • Archive the links with the bot
      • Loosed the bot
Reliability
  • Looks good
Verifiability
  • Sorry to be a nuisance, but I'm not sure its clear where the publisher and year information for the individual books is coming from Aza24 (talk) 00:24, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was intending the identifiers to supply sufficient information to identify the book-- we allow, for instance the books to cite themselves in 'bibliography' sections of FAs, I think-- I was thinking of it like a spread-out cite book template, though I could just cite separately if you want. Let me know. Many thanks, Aza24, should be all handled. Eddie891 Talk Work 00:50, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hmm okay, I suspected something like that. For the OCLCs I don't see a huge deal, since they link directly to World Cat which has all the information. But the ISBNs don't, making verifiability a bit hard since the reader wouldn't know what to click from there. Part of me wonders if you should include both... any ideas or thoughts? Also, I'd add a retrieval date to ref 6, since you have ones for the other ISSN and JSTOR refs. Aza24 (talk) 22:21, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Aza24 I mean, it's been done on FLs such as List of Maya Angelou works... I'd be happy to add OCLCs (and potentially LCCNs) to all if you think that would be better (as at Madonna bibliography). Let me know. Eddie891 Talk Work 01:46, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • For verifiability's sake, the OCLCs would certainly be helpful. LCCNs might be overkill, but up to you in the end. This isn't a huge point (and I'd be happy to pass the source review regardless), but the OCLCs are such a direct way to the information cited, it seems a waste not to include. Aza24 (talk) 03:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            Aza24 Better? Cheers, Eddie891 Talk Work 23:55, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            • Great, pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 19:15, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • The lead is very short, I'd be tempted to merge it with the history section (and move the image to the top)
    • Done-- does it look OK still?
  • "....FLOTUS had memoirs published in their lifetime" - why not "FLOTUS had memoirs published in her lifetime"? They are all women.....
    • Done
  • "Every first lady after Betty Ford has published at least one memoir." - not true - you specifically note later in the article that Melania has not published a memoir
  • "Since then, every first lady has written and published at least one memoir about their life" - again, not true
    • Switched the two to "most first ladies"
  • Several names are linked multiple times in the history section, they only need to be linked once each
    • Done
  • Jill Biden's memoir was published before she became FLOTUS. Any others in this category? Worth mentioning in the text?
    • Just biden, I think, had memoirs published prior to, though Clinton and Roosevelt definitely wrote about their careers outside of being FLOTUS. Sources don't really mention it, but I've added a note.
  • Notes which are not full sentences should not have full stops
    • done, though I may have over-corrected
  • That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:36, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:47, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Kavyansh.Singh
  • Add Alt text to the image.
Done (correctly, I think)
  • In note 7, "FLOTUS" should probably be replaced by "First lady of the United States", or just "First lady".
Done
  • There is an issue with the sorting. Hillary Clinton (with the book What Happened) is sorted between Julia Grant and Lady Bird Johnson.
Done
  • Add links to newspapers, websites or journals in the Citations (various like The Washington Post, USA Today, etc.)
Done, I guess

@Eddie891 – Ping me whenever you address those issues. Thanks for your work so far. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 11:47, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Kavyansh.Singh, what do you think now? Eddie891 Talk Work 19:21, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eddie891 – The changes look good. Overall, the list seems fine, and the only image is in Public Domain (published before 1926). I have made an edit to the list, making minor changes. I feel, I am in position to Support this list for promotion as a Featured list. Great work! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 08:49, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Why would the very first sentence mention published correspondence if these are not memoirs and not included in the table? Fair to discuss Adams in the lead but that shouldn't be there if it's not elsewhere too.
    • Cut the mention of correspondence in the lede
  • The second paragaph has weird organization, going from who the first lady is to Adams's correspondence to a book that wasn't even real letters(?).
    • Rearranged somewhat, is it better? Also, the source does say that Cutts was the author, but upon further research this seems to be an oversimplification, I've attempted to clarify. There's definitely a stand alone article there.
  • "several First Ladies" be consistent with capitalization since this is lowercase elsewhere
    • -> lowercase
  • "After Taft, several First Ladies wrote their own memoirs, including Edith Wilson, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Lady Bird Johnson. In the 1930s Grace Coolidge published her memoirs as several articles in The American Magazine." This is weird, why are those three just listed by name, while Coolidge, who was between Wilson and Roosevelt, has her own sentence?
    • Combined Coolidge, the list of people is all first ladies to Betty Ford
  • "Memoirs by presidential spouses were uncommon until the publication of Betty Ford's in the 1970s." This seems like it should go earlier in the paragraph; you've already listed the exceptions to "uncommon" before this statement. Maybe move the first part earlier, and then say "Most first ladies since Betty Ford..."
    • Reorganized. Better?
  • Why isn't there a citation for "bright, witty, delightfully entertaining reminiscences" since this is a quotation? This alone also doesn't support the previous claim that they were trivial or for women.
    • It's in the cite that follows (the WaPo article). I'm not aware of there being a requirement that citations immediately follow quotes, but I've duplicated anyways. The WaPo article specifically comments on how Wilson and Taft's were considered not super revealing and specifically highlights the contrast.
  • "was criticized for excessively" also unsourced
    • Ditto
  • "Early published memoirs...for instance" speaks broadly, but Taft's and Wilson's were the only early published memoirs, so since the paragraph describes both it's not like you're just giving an example of several.
    • Removed "For instance"
  • Then it describes Roosevelt making a shift to politics from personal life, but her first memoir This Is My Story (memoir) is still personal and pre-politics content so maybe give that in this context.
    • I mean the memoir was published in '37 when FDR had been president for four years and that isn't really what the source says; it describes all four memoirs as not emphasizing personal life.
  • Barbara Bush can be linked in the lead
    • Done
  • Use "Memoirs" or something desciptive as the section header instead of just "List"
    • Done
  • No issues with the table! Very interesting overall.

Reywas92Talk 16:21, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Closing; promoted. --PresN 18:25, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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