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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tintin (character)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Ian Rose 10:03, 6 January 2014 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Tintin (character) edit

Tintin (character) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Nominator(s): Prhartcom (talk) 19:49, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the character Tintin, the eponymous hero of the series The Adventures of Tintin. I have been editing the Tintin articles since 2007 and recently rewrote this article. My respectful plan is to work with other editors to raise the quality of all Tintin articles. Thank-you for your time. Prhartcom (talk) 19:49, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. Here are some suggestions to help improve this article:

I agree with all of the following suggestions. Prhartcom (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead seems to have a lot of puffery and editorializing. For example: "tremendous spirit", "Millions have done so, both adults and children, readers from more countries than Tintin himself ever travelled", "outpouring of public grief not seen in the comics world", "ageless hero lives on", and "an inspiration in the 21st century, a beacon of excellence for the future". These phrases need a more neutral tone.
Agreed. Done (rewritten). Prhartcom (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During these younger days, Hergé had plenty of time to observe his five-years-younger brother Paul" --> "During his youth, Hergé had observed his younger brother Paul"
Agreed. Done. Prhartcom (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The phrase "they simply illustrated a story printed in the text below" is a little confusing.
Agreed. Done (more clearly stated). Prhartcom (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Amid the experience of working in a busy newspaper, reading the exploits of the famous, often roguish reporter Albert Londres further influenced Hergé. As well, the news of Palle Huld, the 15-year-old Danish Boy Scout world traveller would not have escaped Hergé's notice" --> "Hergé's writing was inspired by the stories of adventurous individuals that were printed Le Vingtième Siècle. Albert Londres, a famous, often roguish reporter, and Palle Huld, a 15-year-old Danish Boy Scout travelling the world, were particularly influential in the creation of the character of Tintin"
Agreed (although this is passive voice). Done. Prhartcom (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The short subsections under "Characterisation" and "Reception" look a little odd. Several should probably merged and/or expanded.
Agreed. Done (merged two and expanded another). Prhartcom (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I hope these suggestions were helpful. Best of luck, --1ST7 (talk) 06:12, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the time to provide your helpful expertise; I have applied all of your suggestions. I hope you can return to give your support for FA. Prhartcom (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome, and thanks for making the suggested modifications. I'd like to do a more thorough review before voting to support or oppose this nomination, which will probably be posted in the next 1-2 days. Until then, --1ST7 (talk) 19:15, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. (Thank you for asking)

  • As a rule reduce the use of quotes, I suggest they are only used in footnotes. Don't mention de Gaulle in lead, it is too small a detail.
  • Origin section contains OR and POV, roughly I would suggest:

Years before Tintin first appeared on the pages of the children's newspaper Le Petit Vingtième on 10 January 1929,[1] Hergé was drawing pictures in the margins of his school workbooks of an unnamed young man battling les Boches (slang for the Germans) whilst German armies marched through the streets of Belgium during World War I.[2] Later Herge drew a Boy Scout character for the national magazine Le Boy Scout Belge. This young man, whom he named Totor, travelled the globe and righted wrongs.[3] Tintin appeared after Hergé got his first job working at the Catholic newspaper Le Vingtième Siècle, where his director challenged him to create a new serialised comic for its Thursday supplement for young readers.[4] Totor had been very much in Hergé’s mind; its new comics character would be, Hergé himself later said, "the little brother of Totor ... keeping the spirit of a Boy Scout."[5] As inspiration for Tintin Herge also mentions his younger brother whose physical appearance included a round face and a quiff hairstyle.[6][note] As well, Hergé may have been inspired by the stories of two adventurous individuals printed in the pages of Le Vingtième Siècle. Albert Londres, a famous, often roguish reporter,[7] and Palle Huld, a 15-year-old Danish Boy Scout travelling the world as a reporter.[8]

[Note] Paul's army life included the endurance of jeers from his fellow officers when the source of Hergé's visual inspiration became obvious.[9] Hergé later said, "People say that ... Tintin looks like my younger brother. That's possible ... All I can say is that during my childhood ... I observed him a lot. He amused and fascinated me. And that, no doubt, is the explanation why Tintin borrowed his character, his gestures and attitudes."[10]

Soerfm (talk) 16:51, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank-you Soerfm for your comments. If it is all right, I will wait to see if others agree with your suggestions. I can tell you there is no OR in this article. Thanks again. Prhartcom (talk) 20:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
By the way...nice attempt! Soerfm (talk) 11:18, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments/suggestions for the lead:

  • "the comics series by Belgian cartoonist Hergé" — maybe "a comic series" instead.
    • No, that could be construed as "the comedic series". For instance, one does not normally expect a "comic novel" to have many illustrations. Comics terminology is exasperating. Curly Turkey (gobble) 22:44, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Tintin lives on" could be replaced with something less metaphorical, like "Tintin remains a popular literary figure".
  • "Tintin has been reviled by some for his more controversial depictions of race and other factors" --> "Tintin has been criticized for his more controversial depictions of race and other factors".
  • Please mention Charles de Gaulle's nationality.

More later. --1ST7 (talk) 08:23, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that all of these are an improvement and I am grateful, 1ST7, for your help ... with only one exception: It's "comics" (this has been pointed out to me by the comics community of Wikipedia; I understand "comics" is the singular, as well as plural, term; see for yourself at Comics.) Thanks again for taking the time to help improve this article for FA; see you back here again soon. Prhartcom (talk) 22:22, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on the origin section:

  • Overall I think Soerfm's suggested revision flows better and is more NPOV. I disagree with the part about the quotes, though, and believe they are fine in the article so long as they are not overused.

As a side note, I think this review would be simpler (and more likely to result in a pass) if the article were submitted to the WP:GOCE for a copyedit and then resubmitted as an FA candidate, as Kailash suggested. The sourcing appears to be well organized with every fact having a reference, but the text has too many phrases that don't sound encyclopedic (ex: "a vibrant testimony to the deep and everlasting importance of Tintin", "If he had perhaps too much of the goody-goody about him, at least he was not priggish", and "both Hergé and his readers feel they know Tintin well"). --1ST7 (talk) 19:58, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank-you; see my reply below. Prhartcom (talk) 22:07, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose: The article is not even a good article, and one needs great courage to take it to FA status without making it a GA. But I say first get it well edited with help from the GOCE, then continue work here. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:36, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank-you for your comments, if not your strong support, Kailash29792. I agree with you, it does take great courage to take this article, that I believe is good, to FA status with everyone's help. Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I hear what 1ST7, Kailash29792, and Soerfm are saying and I understand exactly what you mean. Thank-you for clearly stating this, also for acknowledging the sourcing, which I worked hard to achieve. I see that GOCE has a fairly stiff backlog. Please allow me to immediately attempt to make the kind of improvements to the prose to achieve the NPOV encyclopedic tone that is required and return here to let you know when that is done. Prhartcom (talk) 22:07, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Withdraw: FAC coordinators, please assist me by withdrawing this nomination at this time, for the following reasons:

  • At least one reviewer has suggested it be withdrawn, at least temporarily
  • An editor whom I respect has begun editing it, which brings down the level of confidence for comprehensiveness

I will address both of these until their resolution is completely satisfactory, then re-submit in approximately one month. Thank-you. Prhartcom (talk) 21:42, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ Farr 2001, p. 8.
  2. ^ Farr 2007, p. 11.
  3. ^ Thompson 1991, pp. 25–26.
  4. ^ Thompson 1991, pp. 17, 27–29.
  5. ^ Farr 2007, p. 13; Sadoul 1975.
  6. ^ Thompson 1991, p. 16.
  7. ^ Farr 2007, p. 13; Thompson 1991, p. 39.
  8. ^ Jensen 2012; Liljestrand 2012.
  9. ^ Thompson 1991, p. 19.
  10. ^ Farr 2007, p. 16; Le Soir December 1940.
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