Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Saguaro National Park/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 22:19, 23 November 2017 [1].

Saguaro National Park edit

Nominator(s): Finetooth (talk) 21:57, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a two-district national park near Tucson, Arizona, that preserves large stands of giant saguaro cacti and other desert vegetation, much of it barbed, and a wide variety of animals that run like javelinas, crawl like zebra-tailed lizards, fly like whiskered screech owls, or hang out near water like lowland leopard frogs. The taller of the park's two mountain ranges used to be under the shorter one, but it has since moved 20 or so miles east and become a sky island that says, "so there" to the short one. Finetooth (talk) 21:57, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:48, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you kindly. Finetooth (talk) 02:41, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review edit

All sources appear to be of appropriate quality and reliability, and are consistently formatted. Brianboulton (talk) 12:23, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you kindly. Finetooth (talk) 18:59, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Cas Liber edit

Taking a look....

~~Not thrilled about the first sentence. I'd say something like "Saguaro National Park is a National Park in southern Arizona in the southwestern United States." or something similar~~

Recast. Added Pima County and a different national park link. Finetooth (talk) 17:12, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~I'd add the surface area somewhere in the lead.~~

Done. Finetooth (talk) 17:17, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~If Tucson is the nearest big city, I'd put its distance and direction from it, both in body and possibly in lead.~~

Agreed and done. Finetooth (talk) 17:17, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~within easy reach by car from Tucson~~ ~~- err....sounds like a real estate advert..distance should suffice. Could also add travel time if keen...~~

Recast. Not keen on adding travel time. Finetooth (talk) 17:41, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~There's alotta precipitation in para 3 of Geography and climate - can we just use "rain/rainfall" a bit...?~~

Yes. Added variety. Finetooth (talk) 18:38, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~Listing (at minimum) some of the woody plant species (shrubs, trees) that make up the dominant plants in the scrub and woodland would be good.~~

I moved the brief reference to shrubs from the Climate section into the Plants and fungi subsection and added two examples of low-elevation shrubs. I'll add examples of vegetation from the other zones, but this will take me a while. There are thousands to choose from, and quite a few are found in multiple zones. Finetooth (talk) 20:26, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've added four examples of trees commonly found at the highest elevations. I'm not sure how far to go with this; I don't want to make the article too listy. What else, if anything, do you think we need here? Finetooth (talk) 23:30, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine - just a few noteworthy plants is good - i.e anything really rare or unusual or otherwise a common/dominant plant. Anyway, am satisfied with comprehensiveness and prose now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:52, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the helpful advice and support. Finetooth (talk) 01:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley edit

"crustal stretching associated with the Basin and Range displaced rocks". "associated with the Basin and Range" sounds vague. I would delete as not needed in the lead.

Agreed and done. Finetooth (talk) 17:14, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"established the original park". You have not said where the original park was - presumably RMD but the explanation could be clearer.

Clarified. Finetooth (talk) 17:14, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In "designated wilderness" it would be more helpful to link to National Wilderness Preservation System than to the generic wilderness.

Done. Finetooth (talk) 17:14, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Geology. I think it would be clearer if you kept to chronological order and moved the first two sentences to the last paragraph.

Done. Finetooth (talk) 18:42, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Volcanic rocks exposed in and near the TMD in the 21st century are remnants of these events." I think "in the 21st century" is superfluous.

Deleted. Finetooth (talk) 17:26, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Not all of the molten granite reached the surface of the Tucson Mountains; instead, it cooled and crystallized far below." I think "some cooled" would be better.

Agreed and done. Finetooth (talk) 17:26, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

When did volcanism cease?

About 30 to 15 million years ago, according to Bezy. I've added this information to the Geology section. Finetooth (talk) 03:42, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

'After 1920' As in my comment above, you do not explain what area the original park covered.

Added. Finetooth (talk) 17:36, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Were homesteaders and mines expelled from the park? If so, were they compensated in money or offered alterntive land?

Not kicked out. The homesteaders lost interest, and so did the miners, both groups for the same reason. It was too hard to make a buck doing either of these things. I added some specifics about the hard-rock mines, and I added some specifics about the ranchers, some of whom did not want to stop running cattle in the park. They were compensated by buy-outs. To add more specifics, which unfolded over several decades, would add unnecessary detail, imho. Finetooth (talk) 03:09, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How long do saguaros live?

Up to 200 years. Added. Finetooth (talk) 18:01, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"entire biological communities may gradually re-locate in response to long-term changes in climate, such as those that occurred during the most recent Ice Age." I cannot see this in the source cited, although I may have missed it.

I can't find it either, and its inclusion might have been an unwitting violation of WP:SYNTH on my part. I removed the claim and moved the Ice Age link down to what is now its first mention in the article. Finetooth (talk) 18:28, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good article, but the recreation section is too detailed for an encyclopedia article, and reads more like a park guidebook. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:46, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. This seemed to be the opinion of the GA reviewer as well. Aiming for the sweet spot between too much and not enough, I trimmed this section by about 3,600 words. Finetooth (talk) 20:56, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dudley Miles I think I've responded to all of your suggestion and questions. Finetooth (talk) 03:50, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The only issue I can see now is that your edits have forced all the references into the first column. I suggest moving the maps up and shrinking the second one, which is far too large. Dudley Miles (talk) 23:22, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you mean by "up", but I reduced the sizes so that the text is no longer squashed. Is that better? Finetooth (talk) 00:58, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Dudley Miles (talk) 11:10, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your helpful suggestions and support. Finetooth (talk) 16:57, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dank edit

Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 04:43, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your copyedits, all good, and for your support. Finetooth (talk) 01:23, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment: There are a couple of duplinks, but it is up to the nominator whether they are necessary or not, and they are certainly not worth delaying promotion over. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:18, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:19, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.