Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Go Man Go

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 01:39, 16 September 2008 [1].

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Go Man Go

Nominator(s): Ealdgyth - Talk

I'm nominating this article for featured article because it has passed GA, and had a nice Peer Review as well as copyediting by the usual suspects. The only concern might be the image, which is indeed racing out of the article. I prefer the racing pic to a boring standing pic, and did not want to flip the only racing pic I know of, so he must forever race off the page. Otherwise, please tell me what needs improvement! Ealdgyth - Talk 02:00, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Just a general note on WHY I won't flip the photo. Race horses always race in one direction on the racetrack. If I flipped the photo, it would instantly betray that the photo had been altered, because the horse would then be racing the "wrong" way. That's why I won't flip. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

• Support. I copyedited weeks ago, and the article is much improved since then. I also like the racing picture and would prefer it stay as is. I did check the sources and they all look fine. Karanacs (talk) 02:04, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Support. I also did a little bit of copy editing as well, but not much ... the article is very strong, and well-sourced, particularly given the difficulties in finding biographical information on famous horses other than Thoroughbreds. Montanabw^(talk) 19:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Comment on sources from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs):

• Page ranges need en dashes.
• Current refs 21 and 39 only have titled URLs, I realize that the full citations are below, but shouldn't the inline cites have more info? Dabomb87 (talk) 01:11, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Otherwise sources look okay. Links checked out with link checker. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Ealdgyth uses a format where shortened sources are given in Footnotes and full source information is given in References; the full citation is given below. (Responding because she indicated she is traveling.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:22, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Yep, what Sandy said. It's just one of the formats I use (I use a few others, just to be different.) Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I put a note at Brighterorange's page asking for a dash-bot run. Should be fixed shortly. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Image is fine (I touched the FUR up a bit, no issues). Giggy (talk) 06:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Oppose I don't like some of the wording in this article and it lacks sufficient media in my opinion. At least another image or other media communication should be included in here to meet the FA criteria aspect at the very least. Also, some prose issues I have some concerns about:

The horse is deceased and any images used would have to be fair use. One is enough. Pictures, when available and appropriate, are the FA criteria. But we're also a free encyclopedia which means we try to avoid fair use images when possible. Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• • "that lived from 1953 to 1983". Need to reword this. It's more important to talk about his career span rather than his life span. This should be done in an expanded prose which outlines his racing tenure and then his date of death. Furthermore, I see it is briefly mentioned further into the lead. This is bad layout. Such info like his prize money etc should be of initial importance and be in the first couple of sentences.

Redid birth-death to resemble human biographies. Montanabw^(talk) 20:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Since he was a very influential breeding stallion also, I disagree. His lifespan is more important than his racing career, he wasn't famous just for his racing career. Treat him just like a person, is how I approached the article. All of the important information you're requesting is included in the first paragraph of the lead, you just want to rearrange it, correct? This is the lead for a very short article (it's only 11KB of readable prose), we don't want to overload the article Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

As a member of WikiProject Equine, I concur with Ealdgyth. A race horse's career is inevitably somewhat short, their legacy is the quality of their offspring. In the Quarter Horse racing world, particularly during the lifetime of Go Man Go, prize money was not comparable to Thoroughbred racing and it would be putting undue weight to emphasize it much more than it is now. Montanabw^(talk) 19:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

• • "Neither of his parents was raced." Shouldn't it be 'were raced'?

I defer to the copyeditors on this. I believe "was" is correct though, since "of his parents" is a dependent clause describing "neither" which is the meat of the sentence. Stripped of the clause it would be "Neither was raced." which is, I believe, correct. If Im wrong though, wouldn't be the first time, as I'm not a grammar expert.

Ealdgyth is correct that a singular form goes here, but it still looks weird, so I tweaked it a bit and just removed the word altogether because either way, it's passive voice (grin). Montanabw^(talk) 20:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

• • "Go Man Go was considered to be of difficult temperament." By who? Is this POV or is it an actually released reputation of the horse which analysts or other experienced persons declared? If so, state who exactly. And in my opinion, this kind of info should be referenced in the lead.

It was considered by many. It is sourced in the body of the article, including a quote from an owner refuting it. It also is sourced to a noted QH racing writer. And, to be quite honest and fair here, the very next sentence, where he throws his jockey and runs around the racetrack kinda proves the "difficult" temprament here. Most horses don't DO that. If you really insist, I'll footnote it, but the source itself says pretty much the same thing. "As a youngster .... Go Man Go was fiery and spirited." and then goes on to quote Walt Wiggins. Later in the body it gives names for folks and quotes of who thought he was difficult. Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

It is well sourced. And per wiki MOS, no footnotes in the lead, as all info in the lead is referenced in the article itself. I tossed one footnote that got put there. Montanabw^(talk) 19:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Thats pretty much just the lead. I've only had a brief read of the rest of the article but these issues need resolving right away I think. One more thing though, in the Pedigree section, the note related to the astrix sign at the bottom should be placed in a seperate footnote, reference, note. Domiy (talk) 06:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Fixing the astrix issue. Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Support Comments
• Sire in the lead links to the bit about form of address for reigning Kings, which I doubt is what is intended here. :)

Unlinked. Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Ferguson paid $350 for her ($2733 in 2007dollars) Add a space after 2007.

Fixed. Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Their last meeting, on September 6, 1959 at Ruidoso Downs, was also Go Man Go's final race, and was the only one of their races won by Vandy's Flash. Remove the word "also".

Fixed. Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Unfortunately for Ferguson, all three of these horses died. "Unfortunately" is POV.

reworded Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• It might be interesting to provide a general overview of horses, such as how long they live and how many offspring they produce. I took a double take when I read, He sired 942 foals, of which 552 earned their Race Register of Merit.

Heh. You've run into the issue of OR and horse articles. I could say "That's a REALLY large number for stallions" but it'd be OR, based off my own knowledge. There just aren't many statistics in reputable sources saying what the 'average' amount of foals a stallion sires. And in any case, it wouldn't really apply much, because sucessful race sires sire a LOT of foals. The age stuff is in Horse, and it's a bit off topic here. If folks wanna know the life span, etc of horses, I figure they are better off reading the horse article, but yes, he lived a long time for a horse. Normal lifespan for QHs is mid twenties. Ealdgyth - Talk 11:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Alright, that's fine then. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 12:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Good work for the most part. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 11:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Note I'll be on the road today (which is why I didn't do a source check this morning) and won't be available to check concerns until tomorrow morning. I'll be a bit less available than usual until early next week. I'll have internet, just am going to be away from home so won't be the "instant" access most folks are used to from me. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments by jimfbleak :*I seemed to have to read quite a way into the article to establish that this is an American horse.

Removed piped link to breed, which is American Quarter Horse. Montanabw^(talk) 20:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Made it clearer. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:*raced around the track. - ran might be less ambiguous

Changed "raced" to "ran alone" ... Ealdgyth - Talk 21:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:*dam I think you should check this link

Fixed to link to mare. [[[User:Montanabw|Montanabw]]^(talk) 20:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:*Go Man Go's owner…He went on to sire two All American Futurity winners – I’m impressed!

Fixed by creating a new paragraph. Montanabw^(talk) 20:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:*His daughters… They have unusual gifts too? I know what is intended, but the wording seems ambiguous

I think you meant in the lead? I added in "produced, or were the mothers of,..." to clarify the horse lingo. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:*$86,151.00 - do we need .00?

Fixed. Montanabw^(talk) 20:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:*age and gender - I thought words had gender, animals had sexes

changed to "sex" Ealdgyth - Talk 21:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:*Later, though, all three of these horses died - as do we all. Should there be a prematurely?

Fixed. Rewording may still need some tweaking, did my best. Montanabw^(talk) 20:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Tweaked the fix. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:*Among his get - I assume this is jargon rather than an error, is it possible to rephrase for non-experts (not a big deal if awkward)

This one is horse lingo. I wikilinked it and made a brief article. Montanabw^(talk) 19:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

• broodmare sire - As a geegee know-nothing, I thought sire referred to the stallion?

This is one way to say "maternal grandfather" or "maternal grandsire", or sometimes, "sire of broodmares"...long discussion over at WP Equine about this terminology. FYI. Montanabw^(talk) 19:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Fixed a couple of typos/formatting as I went through. jimfbleak (talk) 06:09, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

With Ealdgyth gone, I'll peek at a couple of the grammar things, will try to fix without messing up anything. Montanabw^(talk) 19:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Support and further comments by jimfbleak I'm happy to support this article now that the issues above have been addressed, but three further points — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimfbleak (talk • contribs) 06:54, September 12, 2008 :*caught and reloaded – should this be remounted?

Clarified that it was reloaded into the starting gate. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

:*get goes to a disamb page

fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

And sorry for the delay in getting the article up, that was a "my bad. Montanabw^(talk) 19:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

:*As a broodmare sire, or maternal grandsire, his daughters have produced… - still confused by this, from the comment above he is the broodmare sire, not his daughters – or have I misunderstood?

This is more horse lingo. It's referring to his statistics that are specifc to what his daughters produced. Very important to racing folks, not nearly so interesting to non-racing folks. Needs to be included for compreshensiveness. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments Support -

• Background and early life: "Ferguson paid $350 for her and bred her in 1952 to Top Deck, resulting in Go Man Go the next year." Should this be "Go Man Go's birth the next year."? I'm really not sure.

I'll clarify that, but horses gestation period is 11 months two weeks, so you breed one year, get the foal the next year. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

• Period for Walt Wiggins Sr?

No idea. He's not in the AQHA Hall of Fame, so I'm not sure on his dates. I don't know of any biographies of him, thats for sure. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

• Racing career: Comma after "As Straus said", before the quote.

Fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

• "He was the very first two-year-old to win the title." Very used in a way like this is typically considered redundant.

fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

• Ownership and registration problems: Excess space after $40,000.

fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

• Breeding career and legacy: Excess foal link.

fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

• What does get mean? It sounds like offspring, but I'm again unsure. It links to a disambiguation page, so consider finding a more pertinent link if one is avaliable. Giants2008 (17-14) 23:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Fixed by Montana earlier, and I clarified it in the prose also. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I delayed in creating the new article, it's up now. Montanabw^(talk) 19:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.