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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Galeb-class minelayer/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Hog Farm via FACBot (talk) 23 July 2022 [1].

Galeb-class minelayer edit

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:27, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This hardy class of mine warfare vessels were made by Imperial Germany in the last throes of and immediately after WWI. Disarmed, they were sold to the fledgling Yugoslav navy as "tugs", but were quickly re-armed and used initially as training ships and for "show the flag" cruises to introduce the populace to the new navy. They laid mines in the immediate lead-up to the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia, resulting an a couple of "own goals" with friendly merchant ships. Captured by the Italians, they were put into commission as submarine chasers, and escorted merchant ships supplying the forces in North Africa. Subjected to air and submarine attacks, the six had been whittled down to one by the end of the war. The survivor was used to help clear the thousands of mines that had been laid in Yugoslav waters during the war, and wasn't disposed of until 1962. Good to be back at FAC. Have at it! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:27, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review licensing looks ok but the claim "virtually identical to the Galeb class" needs citation (t · c) buidhe 08:35, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I tweaked the caption and added a cited sentence to the body to support the new caption wording. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:49, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild edit

Recusing to review.

  • "The M 1 class comprised 137 ships built between 1914 and 1918". Should "1918" → '1919'?
Yep, fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Regia Marina (Italian Royal Navy) also acquired two M 1 class M1916 sub-class ships in 1921. These sister ships were M 120 and M 121" M 121 is shown in the list immediately after this as being the Yugoslav Kobac.
Doh, typo. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to drive two three-cylinder vertical triple expansion engines driving two propeller shafts". "... drive ... driving ...". Optional: "to drive" → 'to power'.
Sure, fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In RM service". In full at first mention.
Fixed, actually KM... Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I thought it might be.
  • "In Yugoslav service" section: suggest moving the third sentence to the end of the paragraph, so all the information on armament is together. Optionally move the first sentence up to the information on design speed, so all of that is together.
It is intentionally in chronological order, so that the first para is "as they were initially set up" in 1921, the second reflects the armament changes in 1931, and the last reflects the post-war changes to the remaining ship. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a maximum range of 12,300 km (7,600 mi)". Extraordinary!!
LOL! Yep. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They were renamed ... respectively." Why "respectively"?
Good point, a "pre-table" hangover. Deleted. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild (talk) 19:52, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Gog! I think I've got them all. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Indy beetle edit

Let me know when you're done with Gog's comments, then I'll review. -Indy beetle (talk) 17:52, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GTG, Indy beetle. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:33, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • For "Description and construction" part, it might be worth qualifying the first part with an "Original configuration" subheading. For the part of the "Service history" section where you delve into each ship, it might be worth to qualify this as "Italian service history", and the first half as "Yugoslav service history".
Good idea, have done some re-organising of the structure. See what you think? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:59, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 1938–39 Jastreb was refitted for oil-firing only. I presume you mean oil-fired boilers? Would be good to specify.
Yes, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:59, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The part about the two ships attempting to join the NDH Navy is not represented at Navy of the Independent State of Croatia. Not cirtical for this article, obviously, but I think should be mentioned there.
Sure, I have to go through all Yugo/NDH navy articles and add material from Freivogel. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:59, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • She was renamed Zelengora in 1955, and was finally disposed of in 1962. Is the nature of the disposal known, or was it simply struck from the register?
Checked and clarified. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:59, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • When the Italians withdrew from Benghazi on 18 November 1942, they scuttled her wreck in an attempt to block the entrance to the harbour. Was the wreck ever raised?
I can't find a reference to it, but it seems likely. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:59, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

-Indy beetle (talk) 09:12, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All done I reckon, Indy beetle. See what you think? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:59, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Seems good here. -Indy beetle (talk) 02:16, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

  • Conway's is actually an anthology; if you page to the front of the book, you can see who wrote which chapter. And yes, there are thousands of these entries that we need to correct.
Can you throw me a bone here, Sturm? I only have scans of the Yugo chapter and they don't mention the author. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:24, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Tsk, tsk! Done, but I'll let you change the cites in the article.
Thanks! Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:49, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Friedman and add the subtitle of the book
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:24, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Gröner. German Warships 1815–1945 is the title of the book, volume 2 has the title that you're listing first
I think I've fixed this. Perhaps there is a better way of doing this? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:24, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've fixed this one as well. Best thing to do is to put the volume subtitle in the volume field since the book is a two-volume set, not a series.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:46, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Spot checks not made given the nominators extensive history
  • All sources are known to me as highly reliable--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Partly done, just need a hand with one thing above. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:24, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:46, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Pendright edit

Lead:

  • The Galeb class were minelayers originally built as minesweepers for the Imperial German Navy between 1918 and 1919, and were also known as the Orao class.
and [they] were also known as the Orao class.
  • Re-armed with two Škoda 90 mm (3.5 in) guns and two anti-aircraft machine guns, they could [also] carry 24 or 30 naval mines.
Your call!
  • In the lead-up to the April 1941 Axis invasion of Yugoslavia several ships of the class laid minefields off the Yugoslav coast, which probably resulted in the sinking of two Yugoslav merchant ships.
Add a comma between Yugoslavia & several
  • The remaining vessel escaped being captured by the Germans during the Italian surrender in September 1943, and was handed back to the Royal Yugoslav Navy-in-exile at Malta in December.
and [it] was handed back to the Royal Yugoslav Navy-in-exile...
  • This surviving ship was handed back to the Yugoslav Navy after the war and immediately employed to help clear the thousands of mines laid in Yugoslav waters during the war.
handed back -> returned
All done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:28, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Description and construction:

  • The M 1 class comprised 137 ships built between 1914 and 1919, divided into three sub-classes, M1914, M1915 and M1916, each with progressive improvements.
each with progressive improvements-> such as?
  • These sister ships were [the] M 119 and M 120.[3]
AFAIK the convention is to drop the definite article. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:51, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest "the" above addition?
No, I would rather not. The approach I've used is very common in sources. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:09, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The ship hulls were of transverse steel frame construction with a box keel.[5]
Do you mean the hulls of the ships?
  • With their minesweeping gear extended, they could maintain a maximum speed of 12.5–13 knots (23.2–24.1 km/h; 14.4–15.0 mph). They were equipped with two yawls as ship's boats.[8] They were armed with two 105 mm (4.1 in) SK L/45 naval guns[a], and carried 120 rounds for each gun. They could carry 30 naval mines.
In this series of sentences the pronoun "they" is used three times?
All done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:51, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In Yugoslav service:

  • In Royal Yugoslav Navy (Serbo-Croatian Latin: Kraljevska mornarica; Serbo-Croatian Cyrillic: Краљевска морнарица; КМ) service, the highest recorded speed of any of the ships was 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph).
In "the" Royal
I don't think so, AFAIK it should be either the way it is, or "In the service of the Royal Yugoslav Navy...", but I much prefer it this way. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • When [the ships] they were acquired by the KM as "tugs" in 1921, their original armament had been removed.[10][11]
Suggest the above?
Sure. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In KM service , their official crew numbered 19, but as they were training ships , this was supplemented with instructors and students, and shortly before the Axis invasion in April 1941 the complement was increased to 40.[10]
Can you live with these Changes?
Much better, thanks. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • These were surplus Austro-Hungarian Navy guns, [and they were] intended for mounting on ships that were incomplete at the end of World War I.
  • They [The guns] had been sent to Pula and the Bay of Kotor as coastal artillery, and [they] were seized by the Serbian Army as the war ended, and thus avoided being acquired by the occupying French forces.[10
Both done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • These guns weighed 1,180 kg (2,600 lb) each, and together with the mount, [weighed] 3,910 kg (8,620 lb).
Suggest the above changes
Went for something like that. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The shells weighed 10.2 kg (22 lb), and [they] could be fired at a rate of between three and eleven per minute to [for] a maximum range of 12,300 m (40,400 ft).
Partially done. I think shells are fired "to" a maximum range, not "for" it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In [the] Yugoslav Navy service following World War II, the engines of the surviving ship were rated at 1,600 indicated horsepower (1,200 kW) and her top speed remained 15 kn.
No, the definite article is not used in this situation AFAIK. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Her crew was increased to 68. Her [The ship's] armament was replaced by two Vickers QF 2-pounder naval guns, one twin German 20 mm (0.79 in) Flak 38 and two twin Browning 12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine guns.
See above changes
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Service history: Yugoslav service:

  • The six minesweepers were bought by the government of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (later Yugoslavia) on 20 July 1921, for 1,400,000 marks each.
Drop the comma after 1921.
  • They were used as training ships for the fledgling navy, and engaged in "show the flag" cruises along the Adriatic coast and islands, introducing the navy to the populace.
Who engaged?
Both addressed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 1932, the British naval attaché reported that Yugoslav ships were engaging in little gunnery training, and few exercises or manoeuvres, due to reduced budgets.[17]
  • the British -> "a" British?
No, there was only one at any given time. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • add "the crews of" between that & Yugoslav
  • Drop the comma after gunnery training
These done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the weeks prior to the April 1941 German-led Axis invasion of Yugoslavia, the ships of the class laid several protective minefields along the coast.
Which coast?
Adriatic (Yugoslavia only had one coast, but that is assumed knowledge), added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kobac's crew defected with their ship to the newly-created fascist puppet state [called or referred to as] the Independent State of Croatia (Serbo-Croatian: Nezavisna Država Hrvatska, NDH) at Šibenik on 10 April, but she was soon after seized by the Italian navy.
See the above change
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The crews of Galeb and Labud also sailed to Šibenik in an attempt to join the NDH navy, but [they] were intercepted and captured by the Italians on 17 and 21 April respectively.
See the above change
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • All six ships were re-commissioned as submarine chasers, and used as escorts on the supply routes between Italy and North Africa and along the North African coast.
and "they were" used
Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Selve:

  • From 1 to 4 August, Selve, Eso, and the Rosolino Pilo-class torpedo boat Giuseppe Dezza escorted the steamer Istria from Tripoli to Benghazi, and on 7 and 8 August, Selve and her sister Oriole escorted the steamer Iseo from Benghazi to Tobruk – also in Italian Libya.
Why the conma after August?
Because it follows a dependent introductory phrase and it indicates a pause. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Selve, along with the torpedo boat Sagittario, escorted the steamers Sibilla and Albachiara from Tobruk to Benghazi between 11 and 13 August.
Why the comma after Sagittario
there are commas both before and after the parenthetical element about Sagittario also being involved in the escort because the parenthetical element could be removed without changing the meaning of the sentence, as the subject is Selve, not Sagittario. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • On 31 August and 1 September, Selve escorted the steamer Alato from Tobruk to Derna in Italian Libya, and [she] was quickly joined by two German submarine chasers escorting Olympos to the same port.
See above changes
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • From 14 to 20 September, Selve escorted the steamer Sportivo from Benghazi to Tripoli, and on the [her] return voyage between 29 September and 1 October escorted the steamers Amba Alagi and Anna Maria.[27]
See the above chaanges
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Zuri then Oriole:

  • Brook was attacked and slightly damaged by Allied aircraft on 14 January, but [she] made it to Palermo under her own power.[29]
See the above change
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • After repairs following the collision with Eso, on 8 July[,] Oriole replaced the La Masa-class torpedo boat Enrico Cosenz, which, along with the Turbine-class destroyer Turbine was escorting the tanker Pici Fassio from Trapani to Tripoli.
See above changes
No, that would change the meaning of the sentence. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • She was scuttled by her crew on 10 July 1943 at Augusta, Sicily, in the face of advancing British troops,[16] following damage [she] sustained in an air attack south of Messina.
See above changes
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Zirona[edit]

  • Zirona had a short career in Italian service, as she was damaged and beached near Benghazi on 24–25 November 1941 after a British air raid, and [she] was partially blown up by the Italians on 28 November.
See above changes
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • When the Italians withdrew from Benghazi on 18 November 1942, they scuttled the wreck[age] in an attempt to block the entrance to the harbour.[27]
See above changes
The source refers to her as a wreck at that stage. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Eso:

  • Eso escorted the steamer Ascianghi from Benghazi to Tobruk between 15 and 19 September, and [she did it] between Tobruk and Tripoli [and again] between 27 September and 2 October.[27]
See the above chsnges
Did something similar. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
All done, Pendright! Thanks for taking a look, see what you think of my responses. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting - regards - Pendright (talk) 17:03, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

G'day @FAC coordinators: , this looks GTG. Could I have a dispensation for a fresh nom please? Ta, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:59, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Hog Farm Talk 13:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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