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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Erin Phillips/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ealdgyth via FACBot (talk) 7 July 2020 [1].

Erin Phillips edit

Nominator(s): Sportsfan77777 (talk) 12:56, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Erin Phillips, one of the most decorated two-sport athletes in the world. Phillips is a two-time WNBA champion, an Olympic silver medallist, a FIBA World Championship gold medallist, and basketball isn't even her best sport. Phillips is generally considered the best women's Australian rules football player in the world, having run away with the league MVP award (the AFLW best and fairest award) twice in her first three seasons.

If promoted, this would be the first FA for a women's basketball player (and ninth overall among basketball players in general). It would also be the first FA for a women's Australian rules footballer (and third overall among Australian rules footballers in general). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 12:56, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Teratix edit

Excited to see some women's Australian football content up for FA, and a very fitting choice of subject! Just starting with some comments on the text up to the end of her basketball career, but I'll follow up with a fuller review of the AFLW content references, images etc.

  • Optional: link basketball to women's basketball (and similar for Australian rules football)
  • Australian Football League Women's I've only seen the league referred to as the AFLW or AFL Women's
  • lack of professional opportunities for women's footballers female footballers fits better here
  • winning the league premiership generally teams, not players, are spoken of as winning premierships. Players might be said to have won a premiership medal, or have played in a premiership team.
  • Phillips plays as a midfielder link Australian rules football positions#Midfield
  • one of the leading goal scorers in the competition is this intended to be a quantifiable statement (i.e. Phillips has kicked the xth-most goals in the competition or has won x goal-kicking awards), or just a comment on her goalkicking skills?
    • It's intended to be a quantifiable statement that is quantified in the AFLW part of the article. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:14, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Carlton suburb of Melbourne I'd delink Melbourne here
  • Australian rules football defender Australian rules football already linked
    • Per MOS:REPEATLINK, it's okay to repeat a link in its first use after the lead. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not sure how this aids readers. If they're unfamiliar with the sport, wouldn't they click the link on its first occurrence? – Teratix ₵ 14:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Victorian Football League (VFL), the precursor to the modern Australian Football League (AFL) my understanding is that the VFL was simply an old name for the AFL, not a separate league entirely as "precursor" seems to imply
    • Changed to "which was later renamed as the modern Australian Football League (AFL)" Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I could also do "Australian Football League (then known as the Victorian Football League, or the VFL)" if that makes more sense? I'm not sure. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • women's footballers → female footballers
  • opportunity to train with the Port Adelaide Football Club just "Port Adelaide" should be fine
  • Australian national basketball team player Rachael Sporn avoid this lengthy false title
    • Switched to "Rachael Sporn, a member of the Australian national basketball team."
  • She averaged 15.0 points no need for .0
    • I did this because it would be weird for the averages to have different levels of precision throughout the article. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK, it's a bit jarring for me, but not a major issue. – Teratix ₵ 14:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 4.9 assists per game. She led the league in assists "assists" twice in close succession is a bit jarring
    • I'm not sure there is a good fix for this. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Something like "4.9 assists per game (leading the league)." perhaps? – Teratix ₵ 14:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • free throw percentage at 80.0% no need for .0
  • who were led by Lauren Jackson relevant to article on Phillips?
    • It means more that her team lost to the best Australian player ever than a team based in Canberra. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • her teammates Tracy Gahan and Jessica Foley were named to the team relevant to Phillips?
    • My intent was to explain the reasons for the team's success.
  • entire draft "draft" is fine
  • along with 5th overall pick Sancho Lyttle from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines relevant to Phillips?
    • I removed the country but not the player (mainly to keep in that she wasn't the highest international selection). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 6 rebounds MOS:NUM suggests the numeral should be spelled out as "six"
    • I kept this because when listing points/rebounds/assists together, it's weird to have one as a number and another as a word. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 08:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • top scorer Katie Douglas club or league top scorer?
  • the Sun swept link "swept" to whitewash (sport)
  • Less than three months later in April though, → In April, however, less than three months later,
  • 5 steals → five steals
  • needing to miss a week → missing a week
  • 8 rebounds → eight rebounds
  • perennial league leader in blocks Brittney Griner another lengthy false title
  • 4 assists → four assists
  • 7 points and 3 assists → seven points and three assists
    • Kept because of consistency with points being a number, and for points to always be a number. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 08:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In EuroLeague Women, they were eliminated EuroLeague Women was already linked in the last paragraph
  • helped the Opals qualify for the following year's World Championships in August by winning the Oceania Qualifying Series this reads as if Phillips personally won the Qualifying Series for the Opals
    • Changed to "with their victory in the Oceania Qualifying Series" Sportsfan77777 (talk) 08:19, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • easily by more than 30 points omit "easily" here, a bit POV and redundant to "more than 30 points" in any case
  • third consecutive runner-up to the United States → "third consecutive runner-up finish to the United States"
  • could not manage to trade away → could not trade
  • 5th place → fifth place
  • 4.0 assists → four assists
  • Phillips was named a co-vice captain along with Laura Hodges, while Penny Taylor was named captain after these positions were voted on by the players why not just "Phillips and Laura Hodges were voted co-vice captains by their peers, while Penny Taylor was voted captain?"
  • in a game where the team had 26 turnovers which team?
  • 4 assists → four assists
  • 2.0 rebounds → two rebounds
  • playing basketball and the national team retirement from national team is clearly implied
  • comparing her to then-teammate Lindsay Whalen Whalen has already been linked
  • retirement from the WNBA immediately before the start of the 2017 WNBA season drop the second WNBA
    • I specified WNBA to avoid confusion with AFLW. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:49, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK, it doesn't seem so confusing to me in the context of the sentence, but not a major issue. – Teratix ₵ 14:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • in order to return to Australian rules football in the AFLW → so she could return to the AFLW
    • I would prefer to emphasize the sport change, but at the same time, I don't want to leave out AFLW either. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:49, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2019 WNBA season can drop WNBA here too, I think

Looks great so far. – Teratix ₵ 14:03, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Tera, did you want to revisit in light of the responses to your comments? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:46, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I've been a bit busy offwiki recently and wanted to wait until I had the time to complete a full review. – Teratix ₵ 14:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On to the Australian rules football section:

  • Port Adelaide Football Club → Port Adelaide
  • on the condition that they receive → if they received
  • license → noun form is spelled "licence" in Australian English (crops up in a few places)
  • in the event that → if
  • did not get a license → "get" is a bit informal – maybe "receive", "obtain" or "was not granted"?
  • Phillips' quote is quite long, especially for prose, and could probably be shortened a bit
  • 2017 AFL Women's season → 2017 AFLW season, or even just 2017 season
  • in the ladder → on the ladder (appears in a few places)
  • the press had not expected either team to be top two in the ladder one article from one outlet ≠ the press
    • In Adelaide's case, the article states "The Crows have defied most experts". Then with Brisbane, they state that they were an even bigger surprise (suggesting that opinion was also widely held). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:20, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • who were led by Daisy Pearce relevant to article on Phillips? Only one of sixteen players on the ground.
    • She is the one who received three votes in that game. And I thought it was worth specifying because she is regarded as one of the league's other star players. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2017 AFL Women's Grand Final 2017 AFLW Grand Final, or even 2017 Grand Final
  • the inaugural AFLW Grand Final omit, match is clear from preceding sentence
  • won the AFLW Grand Final best on ground → won best on ground
  • Her on-the-shoulders mark against Melbourne was a finalist for AFLW Mark of the Year this isn't mentioned when discussing the Melbourne match, maybe talk about it there first
    • I re-worded the sentence to "She was also a finalist for AFLW Mark of the Year for an on-the-shoulders mark that she took against Melbourne, losing the award to Darcy Vescio", so that it doesn't sound like I mentioned it before. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2018 AFL Women's season → 2018 AFLW season, or even just 2018 season
  • turned out to be → was
  • co-captain defender Chelsea Randall maybe "their co-captain Randall"? (already written in full earlier)
    • I cut co-captain instead of defender, as defender is more linked to them giving them up lots of goals. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Optional: link concussion
  • with a one-point loss to Western, I find Western Bulldogs is almost always written in full, maybe abbreviated to "the Bulldogs", but never "Western"
  • The first paragraph of the 2019 section has a bit of an odd structure – going to the end of the home-and-away season then jumping back into round 3 and 4.
    • I viewed it more as describing the outcome to Adelaide's season (the wins and the ladder position), then the outcome to Phillips's season (the season-bests). I didn't want to "save" that Adelaide won the last six games for the very end of that paragraph. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:30, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the lowest score in AFLW history this was true at the time, but has now been bested (worsened?) by Richmond, who kicked just 0.3 (3) against St Kilda this year
  • 2019 AFL Women's Grand Final → 2019 AFLW Grand Final
  • Optional: link "global COVID-19 pandemic" to Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on sports instead of the main article
  • Style of play section could use some analysis from authors other than McGarry, otherwise it should be attributed to him
  • Link Australian rules football positions#Forward line?
    • I linked this and midfielder again (since the other one was in the lead). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • isn't → is not
  • Probably omit children's names per WP:BLPNAME
    • I think it's fine because she frequently mentions them by name in her own posts and articles. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 09:51, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't think the names add enough to the article to justify their inclusion, since the children are not public figures. The presumption in favour of privacy, especially for minors, is strong. – Teratix ₵ 03:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • doesn't → does not
  • Port Adelaide Football Club and the Hawthorn Football Club → Port Adelaide and Hawthorn
  • club ambassador for the Port Adelaide Football Club → club ambassador for Port Adelaide
  • grade school → primary school (Australian English), link if desired
  • Captions: Delink Barack Obama and White House
    • My impression was that links in image captions are encouraged, especially if they are not repeat links? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 09:41, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Sure, but readers will be familiar enough with Obama and the White House that links won't be necessary for their understanding. – Teratix ₵ 03:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I would assume so for most people in the US (and probably Australia too?), but are people from other countries really that familiar with the US? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:08, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Well, Obama is an especially recent and prominent leader, and the White House is well-known as the president's residence. He's not solely well-known in America, or even Western countries. And I'd imagine most readers of this article, on a sportswoman active in the US and Australia, will be from Western backgrounds anyway. – Teratix ₵ 10:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • Okay, removed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 12:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
              Comment: He is well known now, but will he still be by football fans in twenty years time? Who was president when you were a child, or just before you were born? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:40, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
              If Obama becomes less prominent over time, the link can always be reinstated. – Teratix ₵ 00:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
              • I agree with Hawkeye on this one. For the sake of inclusivity, I don't think there is a person or place I wouldn't link (except for major countries per wiki policy). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:04, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References:

  • Sydney Morning Herald → The Sydney Morning Herald and Adelaide Advertiser → The Advertiser
  • 1: Does the Footy Girl's Guide have a numeric page number for Phillips?
    • I only have the Google Book version, which doesn't specify it. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 09:41, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 6: I doubt the uploader has the appropriate permissions from Fox
    • I didn't think that was a problem? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 09:41, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Per WP:ELNEVER, linking to copyright-violating material is prohibited. It is a bit of a pain if the source isn't readily accessible, but policy is that we need to be very cautious and conservative in these matters, because publicising copyright violations reflects poorly on the site. – Teratix ₵ 03:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Okay, I see what you mean. I changed the format to "cite episode" instead of "cite video" and left out the link. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:08, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 7: consider using Template:Cite podcast or similar
  • 17: what makes this source reliable?
    • As Hawkeye pointed out below, it's decently sourced. And I was able to find other sources that verify most of the info in the article. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:46, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Why not just use those sources then? – Teratix ₵ 03:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • OK, so the source has now been removed, but isn't that leaving some information unsourced? – Teratix ₵ 10:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes, added sources for the 2007 ACL injury and the 2008 WNBL Grand Final. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 12:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 47: what makes this source reliable?
    • The information I used is mostly from a quote by the coach. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:46, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Are you thinking of 46? – Teratix ₵ 03:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yes, I'm fairly certain you were referring to the SB Nation source? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:08, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Sorry, I was confused because there was a nearby quote box from a coach referenced to ref 46 (now ref 45). Anyway, I've found this recent discussion on SBNation's reliability, and the consensus seems to be that it is a blog site and should be considered on a case-by-case basis, taking into account the writer, type of blog and material referenced. The writer doesn't seem to be any sort of expert, but the material being referenced is pretty uncontroversial, relating to Phillips' playing time and matches she started. However, considering the high referencing standards for FAs, it would be best if a replacement source could be found. – Teratix ₵ 10:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2 and 94 are duplicates
  • Missing site for 106
  • 120 and 166 are virtually identical but lead to different places – can they somehow be distinguished?
  • 135: consider using Template:Cite video or similar
  • Spotchecks already done by Hawkeye

That's all I've got, no major issues as far as I can see. Again, apologies for the delay in reviewing. – Teratix ₵ 14:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks Sportsfan, I'm now happy to support this article for promotion. – Teratix ₵ 13:32, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Cas Liber edit

Taking a look now....I made these changes. Otherwise looking good in comprehensiveness and prose. Support from me. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:47, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hawkeye7 edit

I reviewed this article at GA, and support its promotion to featured status.

Image review edit
All images are appropriately licensed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:08, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Source review edit
  • fn 15 is from a blog, but by a fairly well-known sports journalist
  • fn 17 another blog. Article is footnoted though. Consider replacing with the original sources.
  • fn 69 consider adding a language=pl card
  • fn 118 compare with fn 149
  • fn 119 The Guardian is a newspaper, so should use a newspaper card like fn 130 and 144
  • fn 133 compare with fn 131
  • fn 168 We don't need the publisher
  • Spot checks performed on fn 15, 17, 22, 61, 97, 123, 173
Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:08, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note edit

@Teratix and Hawkeye7: - are you both satisfied with the corrections made? --Ealdgyth (talk) 14:22, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, I am happy with the changes made. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:34, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've added some follow-up comments and completed my original review. If these are addressed I see no outstanding issues. – Teratix ₵ 14:24, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Factfanatic1 edit

Hello @Sportsfan77777: I was looking through the FA noms/candidates and saw this article. I noticed that many of the references were not archived so I went ahead and archived 134 of the references, which should be most to all of them. By doing this, in case any of the articles are removed by the website or otherwise become dead, they'll always be available since they're archived. I'm quite busy so I most likely won't not do a full review but I will try to at least review your prose and sources. I did do a quick skim and things do look good though. Good luck! Factfanatic1 (talk) 23:13, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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