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31/01/08

Seen these fanmade Angel credits? They're pretty cool. What'd you make of Torchwood tonight. Jack and Ianto got their now-obligatory romantic scene together. I thought it was pretty good, a couple plotholes but who's counting. I heard Rhys is joining TW next week, do you think he'll be an actually member or a Joyce-style ally?  Paul  730 00:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

My talk page is a mess, I just archived it. The other day I was talking about an article to Bignole and the discussion somehow turned into a debate about whether Spider-Man is funny enough in the movies. (He's not) So yeah, the section headers have little meaning. Why, what's the spoiler about Rhys? (You're so stingy with spoilers :P) I pretty much count DW books as semi-canon anyway, in a case of a series with god knows how many years continuity, canon doesn't matter as much as it does with Buffy. (DW's format lends itself well to expanded universe stuff anyway because the Doctor has loads of adventures betweens eps that we don't see). Yeah, I know what you mean about the credibility of the Angel credits, I hate it when a good fan video doesn't have the right font for the names or something. TW is improving, you're right. My mum doesn't care about Jack's orientation, she just thinks he's a big slut anyway, lol. (She likes him, she's not a prude or anything) My mum's a big DW/TW fan, she wants me to get the TW DVDs. I kind of groaned during the kiss scene, I just think they don't have any chemistry, it was awkward. I really can't form an opinion about Ianto, he confuses me. I liked his "the phones aren't working" speech the other ep.  Paul  730 00:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Franco's art... I've heard such bad things but it's really not that offensive. Like the writing, it's good, but not as good as it's big sister. I wasn't impressed by Jeanty's art at first, but I've come to love it. It has good life to it, not as stiff as some of the earlier IDW Angel stuff for example. Lynch does seem like a really nice guy. Whedon sometimes comes across to me as a little bitter and... bored? I was suspicious of Ianto in the Suzie episode... he just seemed to jump on Jack out of nowhere and his "gloves come in pairs" line was very omnimous. Why exactly do you hate Gwen?  Paul  730 01:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

That one-legged man was creepy though. You are right about Gwen, she is a Mary Sue. And she has a fringe, I hate fringes on women. I hate Rose for much the same reasons. She's okay... I like how she's very working class, that makes her quite relatable. But later on she gets put on such a pedastal... even a few eps into series 1, the Doctor's all "I only take the best". I mean, she's not that great let's face it. Her mouth is always hanging open and she's this really sulky, selfish, immature little brat. By series 2, her and the Doctor were so smug together that I was glad to see her go. But I'm too hard on her, part of me only hates her because everyone else loves her so much. I feel like I have to balance it out, like when I stick up for Kennedy. Martha was much better, better in a crisis and much more relatable in the end, becasue the Doctor ignored her.  Paul  730 01:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Lol, what do you like about it? That was some dodgy acting at the end.  Paul  730 17:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

*Gets up to check bookshelf* It was #21 (vol 2.), the last ish of Slott's entire run. I cannot emphasise enough how much you should get Dan Slott's She-Hulk run. It's brilliant, the best comics I own bar Buffy (which is always #1 no matter what :P). Yes, the idea is hilarious and very well-executed. I was a bit miffed that they'd retconned her... "encounter" with Juggernaut but it was so well done, so tongue-in-cheek, that it was more than worth it. She-Hulk is great like that, turning retcons, badly designed characters, and comic book continuity into great fourth-wall breaking humour. I find myself frequently quoting Shulkie while dicussing Marvel because it reminds me why exactly I love the Marvel Universe, flaws and all. Love letter over. ;)  Paul  730 19:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

OMG, love it! Love the Xander kinkyness, he's quite the pervert isn't he, lol? All his spanking and shepherd role-playing with Anya, and now he wants Renee to "babysit" him. Andrew was brilliant, as always, I don't even have to explain why. Willow's not been having much luck this season, huh? I think Xander may have benefited most as a character from season 8, he was getting a bit podgy and useless in the show and now he's really cool. I'm loving all their storyarcs so far, to be honest. I'm not sure about that Renee though, I think she's going to be a Riley/Kennedy-style unpopular character.  Paul  730 13:16, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

That's what my friend thinks, but then again Gigi was actorless and I liked her. Renee doesn't seem to have much of a personality so far. She likes Xander and she feels guilty about the zombie incident? What else? Maybe I'll like her more down the line but she's not made a very strong impression, she's "okay". I'd probably hate anyone trying to home in on Anya's territory. Did you see that other preview ages ago for next weeks's ish? Apparently that pink-haired Simone is a gun-toting psycho after all.  Paul  730 19:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Link. I like how Evil Simone and her numerous minor appearances is tying into the whole "Slayers living above the law" theme of the season. I'm really looking forward to this ish, I think it's the obligatory Buffy Gets Her Ass Handed To Her By The Big Bad episode. Everyone says Jeanty has been improving, I think I'm just getting more used to him. Has his style changed that much since #1?  Paul  730 19:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I've seen that cover. It's an homage to some movie called Seven Samurai I heard?[1] Lol, funny theory but flawed if you've read Tales of the Vampires. Drac is way more sexually ambiguous than Buffy, ha ha. Him and Xander made a pretty cute couple (it was all humourous subtext, nothing explicit :P). Mind you, Buffy and Faith... Everyone in that pic is pretty gay except Renee.  Paul  730 19:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm just settling down to hear it with a plate of day-old Pizza Hut (class personified, so I am). Tell you what I think in half an hour or however long it is.  Paul  730 00:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, the podcast is over and I've finished my pizza (it was good). That podcast wasn't as fun, too many "That's a spoiler" answers, which aren't his fault. I was slightly worried when he said they might not do painted covers anymore (that was your question wasn't it, Mr Liam Question Mark? :P). Ehh, mate, I want my Angel comics to be consistant so keep the painted ones coming! The canonicity of the Spike books... I kind of prefer them vague TBH. It kind of cheapens BS8 and A:AtF a little if every other comic under the sun is canon. I think of them as kind of semi-canon, like I do with most Buffyverse comics (the novels are mostly crap, Go Ask Malice notwithstanding). Only the shows, BS8, A:AtF, the Tales series, Fray, and Origin are fully 100% canon IMO. Aw, Lynch seems very concerned about keeping the fans happy, it's sweet.  Paul  730 01:20, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Lol, WTF? I would hope not. ;) And Betta is nothing like Jar Jar, Betta is genius. :) I hope he interacts with the rest of Team Angel. What did he do in Shadow Puppets?  Paul  730 01:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

hehe...

"Don't put deceased in his descirption, makes him sound like a Zombie"

this seems like a really obvious candidate for a black power ring to me... But yeah I guess we'll just have to wait and see.--Marhawkman (talk) 00:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Hehe, well the black corps IS supposed to be large enough to fight the other seven simultaneously. :p--Marhawkman (talk) 01:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Edits to List of Torchwood monsters and aliens

Please discuss changes to long-standing entries on the article's talk page before deleting information from them. A well put forward argument will always be considered. An out-of-the-blue edit can lead to immediate reversion of your edits and the undermining of your future contributions. Joint decision put forward by Clockwork Apricot (talk) 23:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

09-02-08

"Meat" was good, and surprisingly sad when the space whale thingy died. Fucking Owen. I was worried they would cop out at the end by retconning Rhys to maintain the status quo. I hope he has a slightly more prominent role from now on. Buffy was brilliant! I've grown to really like Satsu, that whole scene was sweet and very very funny. Like when Buffy just booted Satsu into a vamp nest mid sentence, or when she was like "God, noone cares about your wrath" to the vampire she was fighting. I'm not really bothered about Twilight's article TBH. Obviously it doesn't need to exist now, but I can't be bothered fighting fans to have it merged when it might need to exist later. I'm going to leave it alone for now, but if you want to merge it, I'll support you in the debate since you're technically right. Chances are it will end up being merged into Caleb (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) or whoever is under that mask (Caleb is a bit obvious).  Paul  730 10:27, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

My friend thought it was Caleb because of the bit where he dodges her groin slice move. And the "just like a girl" line. It seems a little too obvious. Jonathan... nah. Quentin... nah. Riley? My same friend is convinced Riley is in on Twilight's plan somehow. Wouldn't Buffy totally recognise all of these people's voices? It's like people have no sense of hearing in comic books.  Paul  730 12:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Riley's never been comfortable with magic, it might make sense that in the years we've not seen him, that discomfort has evolved into something more. I might hazard a guess with Drac if he wasn't in the next couple of issues. My friend was telling me there's going to be a bit twist in the Tokyo arc, and Dawn is mysteriously absent from the covers. Apparently it's set to rock the foundations of the Buffyverse. And remember, someone's a traitor. Lol, this is exciting, season eight couldn't be better. They'd better not kill off Willow or Xander!  Paul  730 12:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Lol, how about... Twilight is Pike! I would kinda like that.  Paul  730 12:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Skins

Hi, in response to your message "They haven't been formally introduced by press statement or opening credits as "main characters", however)". I must say, actually - they have, in both cases. Channel 4 press release dating January 29th 2008, and episode 1 aired tonight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FlowerSniffer (talk • contribs) 22:11, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

13/02/08

What dreaded day? Valentines day? Isn't that on Friday? Well, happy Valentines day when it comes. Urgh, I don't have BBC3 so a bunch of people who aren't me getting to see my shows before I do doesn't make me happy! :P How good was TW tonight? The scene around the table was really emotional I thought, the bit where Tosh said she didn't have a housewarming because she had noone to invite. Aw. I think season 2 has been strong enough for me to consider buying the DVDs... I never bothered with season one.  Paul  730 22:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Oops, that means that I told that guy at work today the wrong date... ah well. (And how did I get the right date for the section header... I'm braindead, I swear.) Is the episode good then? Is the twist related to Martha? Is it going to be anti-climatc now that you've totally hyped it up? :P I'm all excited.  Paul  730 23:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Um... random question... uh, Xander Harris? He's someone I think of as superheroey without powers. Does he not count, do you mean comic book heroes like Batman? I can't think, most of my fave heroes have some kind of powers. Why do you ask, who's yours?  Paul  730 14:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Ooh ooh, Gertrude Yorkes! Yeah, she has a dinosaur and everything but that's not really a "power". She's probably my favourite non-powered Marvel hero.  Paul  730 14:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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Jack

Are you going to add those two sentences you put in the background section to the appearances section?  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you feel they're something that will clarify his history, or is important but left out, then I would add them back in.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:14, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry about the run-on sentences or any grammatical issues. You find the right place in the section for whatever you want to add, and the copyediting can be worried about afterward.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The more I think about it, the more I think these little notes are better dealt with in the "character development" section than appearances. Should the show make more sense/priority of these tidbits, we can then adjust the appearances section accordingly. For example, there's mentions of "Gray" in the first episode ... but way too vague to make mention of, the character appears (briefly) in "Adam" and it is mentioned... and could possibly appear (as an adult?) either later in the series, or next series. We should just leave it as it is for now, I think. It's thorough and comprehensive without becoming speculative.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 23:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I concur that reasons for Jack not appearing would be more appropriate in the production sections. In addition, I feel having historical chronology in his appearances isn't all that. I think one paragraph for his adventures in his personal timeline as presented in the episodes would be cool, and the second paragraph could detail each revelations of his backstory. At the end of the day, your lead is your chronology, your way of tying things together.

Plus, have you read the novels and comics? There could always be something worth scooping of his backstory. I'm unsure if any websites exist to summarise the main details of his adventures though, like when I was researching the Bantam Indiana Jones novels. Alientraveller (talk) 19:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Did the rearranging:

Jack first appeared in 2005 Doctor Who episode "The Empty Child" and its continuation "The Doctor Dances", when Rose (Billie Piper), a companion of the Ninth Doctor (Christopher Eccleston), meets him during the Blitz. Posing as an American Group Captain volunteering in the Royal Air Force, Jack is unwittingly responsible for releasing a plague which the Doctor cures. He joins the Doctor in his time machine (the TARDIS). During his travels with the Doctor, Jack matures into a hero, and in his final 2005 appearance, he sacrifices himself fighting the Daleks; Rose brings him back to life while suffused with the power of the time vortex. He is then left behind by the Doctor and Rose, who depart Satellite 5 in the TARDIS.

In the Series 1 finale "End of Days", The character returned in the 2006 spin-off series Torchwood, where he leads the Cardiff-based organisation Torchwood, battling alien threats. A changed man, Jack became immortal after his resurrection and has spent years on Earth waiting to reunite with the Doctor. Jack recruits policewoman Gwen Cooper (Eve Myles) to his team; there are hints of romantic feelings between them, and he is in a sexual relationship with existing employee Ianto Jones (Gareth David-Lloyd). Jack returns to the TARDIS in the series finale, and he meets the Tenth Doctor (David Tennant) and his companion Martha (Freema Agyeman) in 2007 Doctor Who episode "Utopia". By the series finale, having spent a year in an alternate timeline enslaved by the Master (John Simm), Jack opts to return to his team in Cardiff. In 2008, Torchwood series two began with Jack returning to his team to find they have moved on without him, with Gwen leading the team. Returning with a new attitude, Jack finds his team more insistent to learn of his backstory after meeting his former partner, Captain John Hart (James Marsters). The series plans to further explore Jack's relationship with Ianto, and the temptation that Jack poses for the newly-engaged Gwen. The character will also appear in the 2008 series of Doctor Who.

In his first appearance, the audience learns Jack is a former Time Agent, having left after inexplicably losing two years of his memory. Despite having worked with him for some time, his present-day colleagues know very little about him; over the course of the season they discover that he cannot die, and that "Jack Harkness" is not in fact his true name, but an alias taken from a deceased WWII soldier. The audience also comes to learns Jack was once a prisoner of war, and was an interrogator who used torture. Jack explains he returned from Satellite 5 to the present day by travelling to 1869 via vortex manipulator, and lived through the 20th century waiting for the Doctor. The episode "Adam" explores Jack's childhood in the Boeshane Peninsula, revealing through flashback sequences how his father Franklin (Demetri Goritsas) died and a young Jack (Jack Montgomery) lost his younger brother Gray (Ethan Brooke) during an alien invasion.

Approve? We can paste this then and keep improving. Alientraveller (talk) 20:25, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I know I've been delaying with the Jack article, but I wanted to give it another review and I've been busy. Anyway, there are some final kinks I think we should iron out before proceeding with FAR...

• The literature section simply reads like a list of book titles. Can we get some plot details on these books, or should we simply say "all Torchwood novels"? I recently worked a little on my Buffy sandbox literature section, see what I did there and tell me what you think.
• Is the quote box about Davies not making Jack bi out of principle really necessary? Couldn't it just be proseified, it looks a bit clunky?
• There's some OR in the Characteristics section. Statements like "sympathising with a man's desire to die" is OR because you're reading into Jack's emotions, it's your own interpretation. Same with the bits about killing Bradford Meade... uh, I mean Copely as revenge, displaying kindness and sympathy, and whether something "may relate" to his existentialist beliefs. I get that this is nitpicking over blatantly obvious things, but it still borders dangerously on original research.
• "Despite the boldness of the first LGB character in the series' run"... slightly POV wording? It doesn't look like you have a source discussing the boldness, you're commenting on the boldness yourself.

Tell me what you think about these and I'll try to submit it for FAR ASAP. :)  Paul  730 16:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I know what you mean about keeping the prose interesting being difficult while maintaining NPOV. We've both worried that the Jack article was confusing, but Bignole, who knows little about DW/TW, says it makes sense to him. I think some people just deem any article which doesn't have separate sections for each sentence as "messy". God forbid they might actually have to read the article to find what they're looking for.  Paul  730 20:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

18.02.08

Sure, I'd be happy to, I love Martha. I'll get started sometime later tonight, probably. Also, I'm going to have to get around to finishing (or starting, for that matter) our work on the Terminator articles, that's one project I really forgot about. Have you seen SCC yet? I've heard mixed things.  Paul  730 18:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I kind of prefer myth arc formats to monster of the week formats though. They're less acessible, but more rewarding for the loyal viewer. Buffy season 5 anyone? Then again, Doctor Who really really works as a MotW format. I have plenty of time for SCC anyway, the stance I (and many others apparently) take is "it must be better than T3".  Paul  730 18:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, like Lost you mean? Lost is sooooooo dull. I was asking you a few weeks ago about the Jack lead but you didn't reply. Um, maybe ask Bignole to look it over before FAing it again, it would be better to get his issues out of the way than have him tear it apart in the FAR. I'll also ask User:Alientraveller for his opinion, he has a few FAs under his belt IIRC.  Paul  730 19:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I suppose it's episodic in the sense that each episode focuses on a specific character but the pacing is awful. You'd have one great episode, following by like six pointless ones. I seriously lost (hah) interest mid-season 2. I'm sure it's great character development and everthing but I just can't care. It should take a lesson in pacing from Heroes, that's really exciting. Lost would probably be better on DVD.  Paul  730 20:22, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Heroes season 1 wasn't so much fast as just exciting, each ep ended on a great cliffhanger. And the cliffhangers were actaully resolved, not left hanging like in Lost. I've not seen season 2 but I know it's disappointing. I've never seen an ep with Nikki and Paulo but I've read enough of their Wikipedia article to know you're in the minority, lol.  Paul  730 20:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've started the framework for Martha. It doesn't have actor names, citations, or TW info as of yet, so bear with me. I'm concerned that I don't mention the other Jones' enough, but then it's not their article. Maybe mention how Francine is worried about her and doesn't trust the Doctor? Make any ammendments you see fit.

Martha Jones is introduced in the 2007 series of Doctor Who, first appearing in the episode "Smith and Jones". When the hospital she works at is teleported to the Moon, medical student Martha helps save the day alongside an alien time traveller known only as the Doctor. To thank her for her help, the Doctor invites her to join him for a supposed single trip in his time machine the TARDIS, but later accepts her as his full-time "companion", admitting that she was "never just a passenger". Nevertheless, Martha becomes frustrated when the Doctor remains oblivious and unresponsive to her growing romantic feelings for him, and she expresses concern that she is simply a rebound after the Doctor's painful loss of his previous companion, Rose. When the amnesiac Doctor falls in love in the "Human Nature"/"The Family of Blood" two-parter, a pained Martha claims "You had to go and fall in love with a human... and it wasn't me". In the series finale, in which the Doctor's nemesis the Master takes over planet Earth, Martha is left alone to save the world. She spends a year travelling the continents in a plan which restores the incapacitated Doctor and reverses time, undoing the Master's actions. Martha then leaves the TARDIS of her own accord, telling the Doctor that she refuses to waste her life pining after someone who doesn't feel the same way, but promises that she will see him again.

 Paul  730 21:51, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, it is quite a Martha-centric episode. I'll impliment the section into the article, and we can make any adjustments there.  Paul  730 22:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

How come you deleted that Freema interview info? I thought it looked good, it just needed a citation template? Oh, and Bignole says to impliment the Jack lead and just stick it up for review.  Paul  730 22:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

But I moved it to the character development section before you dele... never mind, yeah I think was good, it confirmed that Martha had moved on... sort of, something which might border on OR to infer from the show, since it deals with a characters emotions. Besides, an extra source never does anybody any harm.  Paul  730 22:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Argh! I've never nominated something for FAR... I'll look it up and find out how. Also, do you think we should change the Martha image? It's a bit... crap. I'd rather have one of her in her trademark outfit, the red jacket. Something like this, although from a better sourse like the DW website or something. And I can provide DVD sources that her red jacket is her trademark look, so if we added that to the article, an image of it might make sense.  Paul  730 22:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Bionic Woman

So I hear the new show was cancelled. How will you structure your rewrite of the title character now? Alientraveller (talk) 21:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

28/02/08

Oh. My. God. Have you seen the new Jo Chen Buffy cover???? I nearly had a fanboy heart attack when I saw it.  Paul  730 15:08, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I phoned up my friend literally seconds afterwards and was like "Oh my God!!!" He was the same. Lol, we're so sad but who can blame us? How do you think they're going to reconcile the "no more magic" storyline which happened in Fray's past and apparently Buffy's future? Do you think Twilight will succeed, leading up to Fray? Or do you think they'll pull a T2 and stop Twilight, causing Buffy's timeline to break away from Fray's? I can see them pulling a Joss Whedony Immortal-style-avoid-the-corner-I've-written-myself-into plot twist. I like how Fray is tying into the Twilight story, since she has knowledge of how it all potentially goes down... and how it doesn't matter in the end because the lurks come back. Joss has confirmed a Season Nine, and if the magic is gone by the end of S8, that will kind of... suck.  Paul  730 21:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

You know, I never thought to look. :P What did you think of A:AfF? I thoroughly enjoyed it, although I do think Urru is pushing the boundries of weirdness when it comes to the demons of Silver Lake. Having Lorne back was a breath of fresh air so it was. He's definitely one of the most underappreciated Buffyverse characters, he really adds a lot.  Paul  730 21:42, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not really liking Wesley in AfF. After an extremely emotional death last season, he seems to just hang about in his outdated suit being pointless. I hope he has an actual role soon, because he's kind of bugging me. You're probably right about Lynch trying to cover his (or Urru's?) mistake. I think A:AfF will make a better graphic novel than it does individual issues. Buffy is very well-paced, but Angel isn't as satisfying in such short bursts. It's still great, but it doesn't get me excited like Buffy does. It will probably read better as one big story. How do you feel about the extended cast? My friend says it's too much of a cameo fest, what with Nina, Gwen, Groo, etc etc.  Paul  730 22:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I was thinking of the dragon as Myfanwy as well! Honestly, great minds... I am intriqued as to the dragon's real name. The dragon and George are both totally cool. Gwen... meh, I usually like electric people but she's not done much. I suppose it's nice to have her there. Groo was suprisingly funny, I didn't like or dislike him in the show, but he was cool in #4. Who is the mystery character on the "First Night" cover? I like the demon cameos like Teeth and She-Skip, it creates a cohesive universe... let's have a fucking Miquot cameo! I love Miquots! I'm not loving Spider at all...  Paul  730 22:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The Lord of Burbank is female, she sits on a throne of slaves and wear high heels. (God love Angel and it's S&M demons) Angels always been less feminist than Buffy - a predominantly male cast and the two females, although strong, are often damsels. "Handsome man saved me from the monsters." It's probably just what happens when your lead character is male, he needs somebody to save after all. Lots of blonde bimbos walking down dark alleys, totally crapping on everything that Buffy stands for. Lol, at least Spike gives them what for in "Soul Purpose" -

GIRL

(stands, incredulous)

Thank you! Thank you! That thing was gonna kill me!

SPIKE

Well, what do you expect? Out alone in this neighborhood? I got half a mind to kill you myself, you half-wit.

GIRL

What?!

SPIKE

I mean, honestly, what kind of retard wears heels like that in a dark alley? Take 2 steps, break your bloody ankle.

GIRL

I was just trying to get home.

SPIKE

(pushes her shoulder, ushering her down the alley toward a lit street)

Well, get a cab, you moron.

(calling after her as she walks away)

And on the way, if a stranger offers you candy, don't get in the van!

 Paul  730 00:01, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I forgot about Illyria. She is the God King of the Primordium, so her gender is debatable. Either way she kicks ass. Um... I don't know about legal stuff. I think Joss pretty much controls everything, the rest just have their fingers in his pies. He basically said he would do what he liked with the characters, he was just keeping Angel out of Buffy cos they didn't really need to be there. Faith is an Angel character too, so maybe she'd be up for grabs? Dunno, I don't really want a crossover anyway, having Buffy in Angel would cheapen his individuality. My only concern is what happens when A:AtF is over? I trust Joss but IDW are money-grabbing, I hope they don't ruin the Angel franchise by not letting it die with dignity. Not that it would matter, anything not approved by Joss would be dismissed by fans anyway.  Paul  730 00:27, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

My only concern with a Fray movie would be who to cast as Mel. But the Buffy magazine said a Fray film was definitely a possibility. Joss said we can expect more from Fray, I don't know whether he meant her role in Buffy S8 or a vol. 2 series. Either way is fine by me. Wow, this really is a brilliant time to be a Buffyverse fan, huh? Night.  Paul  730 00:34, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered by SatyrBot around 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC) SatyrBot (talk) 18:04, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Recent edit to Skins

you recently moved selected characters to the section Reccuring characters and although these characters may not appear as regularly as others, we must use the official information to establish the facts

http://www.e4.com/skins/the-gang.html

you will find the main cast there, I will edit according to this information if you want to carry on discussing the matter would you please find evidence that disputes this.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Benv-b92 (talk • contribs)

Please use puncuation if you are attempting to tell me off.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 20:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

05/03/08

Oh. My. Fucking. God.

I literally shouted that out loud after going to that link. Then I ran into the living room and phoned my friend, and he was like "Oh. My. Fucking. God!!!" because he was just about to phone me about the same thing. This is shocking, like majorly shocking. But not neccesarily in a bad way. The way they're dealing with it seems interesting and so long as they're not going to pull another "hello, gay now" then I'm totally up for it. What are you making of it??  Paul  730 13:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Right now, I'm not really thinking about it in terms of a political statement and more in character development. Buffy's basically been alone for the last year ½, Dawn isn't speaking to her, Willow's fucked off, Giles has "betrayed" her. The closest relationship she has is with Satsu (and Xander, who she's been having sexy dreams about). In #1 she says she misses the sex, it seems like she's incredibly lonely romance-wise and friendship-wise. Slipping into bed with someone you know is in love with you might be comforting. It said in that article that Buffy and Satsu feel like they've used each other. This is all very interesting character development IMO. The fact that Joss has confirmed they're not going to make her gay now is reassuring, and I'm happy to see where the story goes and how Batsu/Suffy will inevitably end. Buffy suffers a close betrayal? Satsu gets shot through a window as punishment for being an affort to the Lord (note sarcasm)? I think Joss is scared of the lesbian community now. :P

As for Torchwood, Buffy is infinitely more mature when it comes to LGB characters. We have the fun slash couples like Fuffy and Spangel and the little jokes about Andrew, which is all tongue in cheek and pretty innocent. But we also get serious relationships like Willow and Tara which are treated with equal respect to Bangel. And Satsu's kiss was genuine enough to qualify as "true love" which is a good message. Torchwood is indulgent crap, no political message/emotional character development, just loads of blatant innuendo and gay sex. Sure it's whole cast is bi, but when will a LGB relationship be treated seriously? CJH was sweet, but over in an episode. Jack and Ianto are nothing but sex and have no actual reason to be together except squee fanboy indulgence. As usual, Buffy shows 'em how it's done. :D I fucking love Buffy.  Paul  730 14:21, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

*Blushes modestly* The Satsu and Fray articles are mostly my work. Who would have thunk that an OR-stomping killjoy policy nazi like myself could have written such plot-heavy fancruft. Seriously though, that Wiki really has picked up lately, mainly because we got a couple of experienced Wikia editors pitching in. I've been working on it a lot lately, it's easier to work on when I don't have much time because it's not as researchy as Wikipedia where everything needs sources. I've been enjoying myself. In fact, I was late for work today because I got caughted up working on Anya's article. It was really hard choosing what quotes to use.  Paul  730 23:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't have scanner either, I find all my pics online and then crop them on this programme Bignole showed me. Can't find any decent Harth ones though (Harth? Really?) You should totally make an account, we would appreciate the help. I mostly just tidy the articles up with images and quotes... I figure that kind of stuff is likely to attract fans to Wikia. Occassionally I'll take a minor character under my wing and write them up an article. I was working on Dracula this week, I've developed a random liking for him.  Paul  730 00:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm just in from work and I'm too tired to properly read through those links so I'll talk to you tommorow. I've did some forum stalking earlier on SlaysAlive and it does seem controversial... those Newsarama posters disgust me with their accusations of shark-jumping. But then Newsarama posters disgust me in general, all they ever do is complain how everything is shit and comics should go back to how they were in the 70s and how they're never buying another issue EVER AGAIN. *Sigh* If comics are so bad then find a new hobby instead of wasting your life spewing venom about them! Sorry for the rant, I'm off to read Buffy now, at last.  Paul  730 00:16, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm guilty of fanboyism myself, but I'm far more positive about my favourite series than your average Newarama-er. Every second post is "I'm NEVER buying this again. Writer X has killed the book for me!" It's like, if you don't care enough about a series to buy it, why waste your time bitching about online? Either like it, or ditch it and move on with your life, like I did when I got fed up with New Avengers. It's easy to criticise Buffy on face value for jumping the shark, it's harder to actually read between the lines and appreciate something. Hence why Buffy is a cult show; only smart people get it. :P The controversy will make great Wikipedia fodder, if we have sources we should use them.

Anyway, more important matters.... "Wolves at the Gate"! Loved this issue. Possibly my fave, although I kind of spoiled it for myself by flicking through it before reading it properly, ruining the jokes. I had a total squee moment in Forbidden Planet when I saw Dracula, and Xander calling him "Master". I love their relationship, it's hilarious (made even more hilarious by the preview for next issue, which features drunken post-"break up" Dracula). Drew Goddard took a shitty episode like "Buffy vs. Dracula" and turned it into one of my favourite Buffyverse stories. You have read "Antique" right? You totally should before the next issue (someone uploaded it on SlaysAlive). I'm glad they're acknowledging it directly in Season Eight since there was some confusion over it's canonicity, given how ludicrous it is. I adore Xander's embarrassment over his relationship with Drac, like how he hangs his head in shame when he calls him Master. They definitely rival Andrew/Anya and Spike/Angel in the comedy duo department, can't wait for next ish. I thought #12 was absolutely hilarious. Everyone had great entrances, and it kept getting funnier each time. Willow was kind of a bitch, huh? Andrew is, as always, solid gold.  Paul  730 13:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah, Secret Invasion... it's an interesting idea but I imagine it will disappoint. The fun is in the paranoia, once that's over the story will probably just be your average alien invasion. I'll buy the trade, it should be alright.  Paul  730 13:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Flight category

I was pondering, should the description here be reworked? It's just that the others are pretty much phrased better if you compare them to the flight one. Thoughts? Please reply below, Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

After reading this article, I've somehow convinced myself that the creation of two new flight categories may solve the problem; one for those who fly with use of energy propulsion, the other category will be for the ones who fly through physical means. Then, Category:Fictional characters who can fly becomes the parent (ie, holder for the two). Make sense? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

You're probably right. However, your summary is miniscule. We should add more detail, like, clarify that incidental occurrences and characters that carry an ignorance to physical are not included. If something like this can't be done, I'm tempted to make new sub-cats. Do you really think it is that bad of an idea? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll take it upon myself, as well the "risks" you referenced, to create the sub-cats. Perhaps in a few days it'll be done. Any suggestions? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Cameron

This has been discussed on the talk page before. Some one brought up the fact that her bio on the Fox site calls her Cameron Phillips. Using Baum doesn't change it, just as Sarah and John using Baum as their last name does not mean we change their article. ColdFusion650 (talk) 22:25, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, tricky. We should really use her common name, though it's difficult to determine what that is. These name issues tend to get messy on Wikipedia, see the sprawling arguments on the Faith and Bree articles. I'll throw my opinion in, though.  Paul  730 21:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh god, Gwen's changed her name too? Grr, why do all these female characters have to change their names when they get married I like their names the way they are! Urgh, I can just picture it; Buffy Harris... *vomits* Speaking of the Buffster, taking a genderless look at things, how do you feel about Batsu? A lot of the controversy seems more about the fact that she's turned into poop-head Parker by using and abusing a younger girl. Thoughts?  Paul  730 22:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I think Buffy did act irresponsibly but she's not Parker. I resent such comparisons. It wasn't like Buffy predatorily manipulated Satsu and then compared her to a toilet seat. It's a different situation. Besides, does Satsu not take any responsibility? She totally took advantage of a hot straight girl who was feeling depressed. Let's not underestimate her, I got the impression she wasn't exactly a virgin. I felt sorry for both of them when Willow was being a bitch. I kind of empathise with Willow though, I don't think she means to be a bitch, she's just hurt.

Lol, you should write a comedy Torchwood fan fiction, your prose Welsh accent is hilarious. Did you hear the spoiler about Harriet Jones by the way? Do you believe it?  Paul  730 23:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

My boss told me, he's a total Who geek. I remained completely unspoiled during series 3 and it was better - the Master's return was very exciting because I vaguely knew who he was, but didn't know he was coming back into it. I sorta guessed through the Boe's prophecy, but still wasn't expecting it. I'm worried series 4 will be disappointing because I'm really hyped up for it. I wish I didn't know Rose was coming back, that would have been an amazing reveal. Same with SJ. Then again, I knew Jack was coming in during S3 and still loved his return.  Paul  730 23:44, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Angel is okay, I'm just feeling kinda underwhelmed by it. I don't really understand Gunn's plan and it feels too cameo-centric. Which I guess you could also say about Buffy, but I think Warren and Amy will come into play later and at least their introductions were exciting. Isn't the guy on the cover Groo? With a new hair cut I guess? I really hope it's not Lindsay but he looks too angry to be Groo. Looking forward to First Night, if only for a change of artist (don't mind Urru, but change is nice). I like Messina's art, it's a little static but it's gorgeous. I did notice the Fray cameo but apparently that's not the Scythe, it's "more homemade" whatever that means. I read a theory saying Angel and Spike might end up in Haddyn just in time for Fray volume 2 - given the time travel foreshadowing and the fact that time moves differently in hell dimensions. Nice theory, but I doubt IDW would just hand two of it's most profitable characters back to Dark Horse.  Paul  730 00:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

What implication? The whole hell dimension science thing has been much discussed, there's various theories. I assumed they were in a different dimension? A barrier would mean they're still on Earth, just in a weird hell-bubble.  Paul  730 00:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Lol, the Slayers had better hang tightly to their clothes if Brian is coming to write them, the perv.  ;) I'm waiting patiently for the announcment for a Faith and Giles spin-off (random thought - do you think Faith will end up helping Simone?) so maybe he's writing that. I also think Willow is being set up for a spin-off, this sudden estrangement from the Scoobies and new-found independance/weird backstory seems very convenient. I'd kind of like Willow?, it'd be nice to see her achieve her dream of being the hero rather than the sidekick.  Paul  730 20:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't beliebe we're already 1/4 way through season eight. And almost halfway through AtF. Time flies.  Paul  730 20:19, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Alas, they can't be. "The Gift"'s dragon had arms, Angel's one doesn't.[2]  :( I have thought about it though, sadly enough.  Paul  730 20:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Why are you planning to breed them? What makes you think Angel's is a chick? I told my friend that we nicknamed the dragon Myfanwy and he laughed, said it was a good name, that he liked it.  Paul  730 21:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Ooh, mixed feelings about Spike. Don't get me wrong, new canon Buffyverse stories are always a plus, but Spike...? I kind of prefer him as a disgruntled sidekick rather than a solo hero. It's the Wolverine factor... And did I hear Urru is getting kicked off Angel to draw Spike? Hope that's not true. Sorry to be a party pooper, but I've never been a big pusher of Spike solo stories. At least it's only four issues, and I hope to be eating my words. Oh, and I changed the dragon thing, I only categorised it as "demon" because I couldn't think of anything better.  Paul  730 06:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikia

I personallly support interwikilinking, but I did so on the Fray article and got reverted. See that talk page for the big discussion. You could ask on the talk page and see whether concensus allows it, personally I approve of it. I think the Smallville character lists do it as well. I think links to Wikia are broken right now for some reason though, they might have fixed themselves by now.  Paul  730 01:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Sam Wilder

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Smallville

Well, Clark has had a bunch of those fights. Kara had one, but it wasn't that great. Kind of cool to watch her flying around and kicking butt. Clark is probably going to have another one with Brainiac in the episode after next (or maybe later on in the season). I know that Kara is going to try and teach him how to fly so that he can gain some kind of edge over Brainiac.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Gay

Can you please join in the discussion on Talk:Gay before removing the section? Thanks. --NeilN ^{talk ♦ contribs} 01:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Serenity

Funny you should be mentioning this now, I only saw Serenity for the first time two days ago. My boss knows I'm a Buffy fanatic so he burned me a copy of his Serenity DVD since I hadn't seen it or Firefly. The verdict...? It was okay, I did enjoy it but I can't see myself becoming a genuine "fan". It had amazing SFX and the characters were nice and Whedony (how cool is River?) but it was far darker and more serious than I expected, I kind of expected "Space Buffy" but it had such a different tone. I don't really plan on buying Firefly, but I'd watch it if it were ever on TV.  Paul  730 06:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I thought last night's BBC2's TW - the one about the circus - really sucked. The whole science of the episode was seriously flawed, were they aliens or what? I didn't know what was going on. The trailer for "Adrift" looked underwhelming, so I'm glad you thought it was good. Torchwood has been a little hit-and-miss since Owen died, IMO.  Paul  730 06:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Did you get my first message? Sorry, sometimes I leave two comments in a row and the person only notices the last one. Have you read Angel #5 yet? I was really looking forward to it after all the hype, but was pretty disappointed. It's mostly an action issue, with the gang all uniting for the first time, which in itself wasn't bad, but the final panel was just plain confusing. I'm really not sure what to make of it, although a quick forum-lurk tells me the fanboys couldn't be happier. Tell me what you think when you read it.  Paul  730 15:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

You aren't willing to brave the rain for Angel? Tut tut, no loyalty. Loyalty's about the only thing keeping me going with Angel ATM. I'm sorry, but there's something lacking with this series, I'm continually let down by it. There wasn't even any Betta George! On a more positive note, Spike finally took off that horrible robe he's been wearing for the last three issues.  Paul  730 15:20, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Random input, Firefly is an awesome show and it amazes me that it couldn't find a large enough audience to at least make it two or three seasons. If shows like 'Til Death can last that long, I don't know why Firefly couldn't. FOX is only lucky that House is as good as it is, because they can't market shows for crap.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:45, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Serenity was a good film, and speaking of it, this hints at the possibility of Summer Glau's character in Sarah Connor falling for John. The idea of a "human" Terminator can be found in the T2 novels: Skynet "grew" a baby by injecting it with growth hormones and nanobots Borg-style. Alientraveller (talk) 14:44, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Wow, "Adrift" was really emotional and disturbing. But it was a really great episode like you said, a really powerful glimpse into the darker side of the Whoniverse. Gwen was pissing me off as usual but I've become quite a fan of PC Andy, let's have more of him! The Jack/Ianto sex scene was completely unnecessary and just didn't fit the tone of the episode, I was quite disgusted with it TBH. There's no emotion or character development to their relationship whatsoever, it really bugs me.  Paul  730 22:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

24.03.08

I'm already spoiled for "Fragments", you don't have to talk in code. :P I did notice the edit with the surnames... in Rose and Martha's cases it doesn't bother me Rhys' feels unnecessary for some reason. Hmm, it's up to you. As for the "Gwack" issues... you have sources from Eve Myles (as well as the fact that Gwen explicity admitted to loving Jack in "Adam") so it should be mentioned. There's confirmed romantic tension between them, the fact that some fans (myself included largely) wish to ignore it is irrelevant. Oh, and I agree with you about shippers, they are lame. I care about characters as individuals, not who cops off with who. The only couple in fiction I really love is Cyclops and Emma Frost, but they're more engaging characters when they're with each other. ...anyway, back to the point, the series two section is looking a little long to me, but let's wait until the series is over (only two eps to go) and we can summarise it properly. The finale is set to be pretty Jack-centric what with Gray and everything, so we'll have to find a way to incorporate that, as you said. We probably won't need as much detail about how Jack was recruited to Torchwood. After we summarise it all, I'll try to get around to submitting it for FAR, it keeps slipping my mind.  Paul  730 21:37, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I noticed, it looks better. :) BTW, did you hear Joss Whedon said at that Buffy reunion convention that he would basically dismiss the comics as non-canon if he got the chance to make a film. I felt disgusted and betrayed by that, honestly, I really want to have it out with him. How can he just betray his own work like that and the people who invested in it. I doubt it will happen but if it does, I'm going to be upset.  Paul  730 22:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Here's where I found out about it. His exact words were "I wouldn't lose sleep over it". To be honest, "upset" is an understatement but I didn't want to come accross as a drama queen; I'm raging with him. I don't particularly like Joss, but I respect him and fully trusted him with my characters and, as someone who's defended S8 against the naysayers of the comic medium, this does feel like such a slap in the face. It's eerily reminiscent of One More Day - writers betraying old stories and their fans to make their job easier. I really pray that if a film does happen - and I don't really want one - he makes the effort to work it into existing continuity.  Paul  730 22:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

It would just be a mess. And completely unnecessary - there's no reason why he couldn't wait until after Season 8 and do a movie instead of Season 9. At least he wouldn't be wiping anything out. Maybe he was talking about Angel and not Buffy? I wouldn't mind a film version of After the Fall; considering it's only a short story and they would have movie SFX, they could make a loyal adaptation that didn't contradict the comics, like Sin City. As I told Alientraveller just there, I hope it was merely exaggeration to emphasise how much he'd like to do a movie rather than a serious possibility. Oh, and is Doctor Who canon really that confusing? Personally, I'm not strict about what counts in the Whoniverse since there's half a century of TV continuity alone, a few books aren't going to mess it up more than it already is. It's like the Marvel Universe. I hate Star Wars - they have such a tidy well-organised canon, I'm jealous.  Paul  730 22:48, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

My god, you know so much more about the Whoniverse than I do. I like the existence of the DW novels/comics because they're always implying on the show that there's a lot of adventures we don't see, and the literature kind of fleshes that out. On Buffy, it doesn't work as well, because you have a tight season arc taking place over a year, so it was hard for the comic/novel writers to squeeze decent stories between episodes. Even though they're not technically canon, Go Ask Malice and the Buffy: Year One arc in the comics were great because they weren't restricted by the show's timeline.  Paul  730 23:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. If you look at Star Wars canon#The Holocron as a comparison, I hold the Buffyverse TV shows, Fray, the Tales comics, The Origin, Season 8 and After the Fall as "G-canon"; in other words they're absolute canon. Something like Malice, Year One, or Oz: Into the Wild would be C-canon, they flesh out stuff you already know from the show but aren't infallible like G-canon.  Paul  730 23:27, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Lol, you see what I mean now when I said I was jealous of Star Wars for being well-organised? I guess T-canon would be something like "Lehane". S-canon would probably be all the novels and comics which feaure the Scoobies battling pointless demons between episodes with no real character development. I really wish Joss cared enough to adopt this model. I preferred the Oz novel to the comics, the comics felt rushed (three issues?). It was cool seeing the artwork for Jinan, the fire demon, though.  Paul  730 23:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Where do you think Spike: After the Fall falls? I think a lot of people are just assuming it's canon, but there was a big debate on Whedonesque and Lynch was pretty cagey about it. Eventually he gave in and said, "SPIKE:ATF tells a story that was going to be talked about and seen in the very canon ANGEL:ATF but instead builds on it and fleshes it out, that's pretty much canon." I'm not sure... it just sounds like another Spike series, no different than Asylum and Shadow Puppets (which I would put at C-canon).  Paul  730 23:50, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm gonna buy it anyway. I think Lynch is reluctant to say his stories aren't canon in case people don't buy them, which is fair enough I suppose. Does Asylum follow continuity though? I know you haven't read it, but I thought it took place in the non-canon IDW continuity of Angel: Old Friends etc. Isn't it set post-"Not Fade Away"? I think the timing is probably vague, given it's general ambiguity continuity-wise.  Paul  730 00:02, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the thing which threw me was Auld Lang Syne (Angel comic) apparently (I've not read it) references Asylum as happening concurrently with/immediately after it. Not that Auld Lang Syne is remotely canon, so it's a moot argument.  Paul  730 00:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Good plan. As Calvin once said, "It's not denial. I'm just selective about the reality I accept."  Paul  730 06:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Joss is particularly involved or concerned with A:AtF. I think he once said fans could take it or leave it, but it was there for people who wanted to know what happened. Once thing that blemishes the shinyness of it is the silly little continuity errors - since when can Lorne get drunk? His species is immune to alcohol! And vampire hair clearly grows on the show, why has Angel only recently learned how to shave? You can fanwank your way out of it (Lorne could have been drinking a mystical brew, maybe vamp hair grows slower than humans or something ) but it's distracting. What do you make of Fred's miracualous return? Personally, I wouldn't have realised she was actually back if it wasn't for the hype, I would have just assumed Illyria took her form for a second. I don't really understand what's going on.  Paul  730 10:00, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Lol, feeling ranty? That is pretty offensive I must say, to basically condradict what he self-identifies as and label him something else, it's not exactly neutral coverage. It's rather patronising, "Aw, he claims to be bisexual, but since they're not real, we'll just refer to him as gay." I gave up on the UK Big Brother a long time ago, used to be a big fan but it just became too pathetic.  Paul  730 18:51, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:DW AC

You commented about Doctor Who assessment, would you like to join the committee on it? - LA @ 00:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)Assessment committee

Wikipedia:WikiProject Doctor Who/Assessment#Assessment committee - LA @ 00:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Oi

Hey :)

—Reedy 20:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Buffy/Angel

So what did you make of them. Xander and Dracula were hilarious... but I'm having a hard time swallowing that Xander chose to go and live with Dracula for months of his own free will. Don't get me wrong, I loved "Antique", but I always thought he was kidnapped and kept under the thrall to stop him from leaving. Why would Xander, who's exhibited nothing but hostility towards vampires (since they killed Jesse, his best friend) suddenly want to spend a year living with one? It seems strange, but by Xander's own admission last issue, he does tend to act "wonky" around Dracula so maybe his judgement is impaired. And it was undeniably funny to watch them catching up over tea and biscuits. Everything else in the issue was great, although I'm concerned about that we're leading up to "No more Slayers...".

Angel was good. I loved the set up of the Lorne story, it was very fun and creative, I was impressed. Spike had lovely artwork but rather confusing dialogue, didn't really know what he was talking about. Connor was pretty solid all round. I liked the use of George as a framing device.  Paul  730 22:44, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol, are you calling me a geek? There's a good conversation between Willow and Satsu, I like their relationship. There's some shocking racism from Dracula in it, it's hilarious! I'll stop talking now, I think I've spoiled enough... :/  Paul  730 22:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I work on Thursdays sometimes but I still manage to get Buffy. *Judges you with eyes* Ooh, Torchwood tomorrow, Doctor Who on Sat, I'm all Whoniversed up. Is the TW finale any good? I was a little underwhelmed by "Fragments"...  Paul  730 00:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow, Torchwood was good. Really good. I couldn't believe my eyes.  Paul  730 21:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I like that Tosh died, of all the characters her death hits the hardest which is what made the episode so powerful. I really was on the verge of tears near the end. I kind of want John to join the team, I started to like him in tonight's episode and I think it would be fun to have a totally unstable member kind of like Illyria or X-23 or... Spike, for that matter. I just assumed Martha was being set-up for TW, why don't you want her? Mickey, I'm more indifferent to. I like him, but his character arc is so over, they would need a real reason to bring him back. I heard "Pete's world" is getting fried in the DW series 4 finale so I guess all the Tylers are coming back to our Earth.  Paul  730 21:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Your criticisms are totally fair, but I just can't help but like TW no matter what a shoddy Buffy-wannabe it really is. John is a mess, as are most of the characters, but I liked that Marsters got to display another emotion besides unbearable arrogance. Gray was pretty one-dimensional, I failed to care for him at all. Btw, go on channel one, Tennant is being interviewed.  Paul  730 22:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol, Catherine Tate had me totally laughing there. My boss hates her, we're always arguing because I refuse to just stand there and let him slag off my Donna. Lol, I always forget about Jake, I like him but he's not very significant is he. And don't you know that dark spin-offs aren't allowed to have blondes in them? Lol, I think we've mentioned that before. I do like Rhys and PC Andy but I just can't see them power walking with Torchwood somehow, can you? I don't think they're likely candidates for membership but I want to see more of them. I'm pretty excited about series 3 TBH, I hope to see a bold new direction for the show. We need some new blood.  Paul  730 22:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Jack's leaving Torchwood? I never heard, or even anticipated, that. That sucks... that really sucks. Lol, thanks for killing my buzz. Martha... I love her but can she hold her own as the lead in the show? I'd like to think so.  Paul  730 22:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to work on it sometime when I'm less tired, but it looks good for now. It's not that long at the moment. The age thing could probably be mentioned in characterization, but would it constitute OR for us to conclude his age from various storylines? (Am I the only one who finds it extremely unrealistic that Jack remained sane while buried alive for 1000+ years? When Angel was sent to hell for a couple hundred years in Buffy, he came back as a rabid animal, yet Jack was perfectly lucid...) I suddenly have massive respect for Daniel Craig. And I agree with him, Bond's a whore and I don't think it would be out of character for him at all. Especially since Craig's Bond is rebooted so he could be a little different from the classic series' Bond. If Buffy can experiment, why not 007? Aw, look at poor Captain Jack worried that Craig might steal his position as LGBT action hero. :P And I have been noticing the Jack/Jesus imagery a lot lately, it seems a little weird.  Paul  730 23:17, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol, Dracula's racism was so unexpected and funny. I loved Xander's reaction, his little hand over his mouth in shock. What do you make of the whole Xacula penpal thing... out of character? I'm willing to forgive it because their relationship is simply hyterical. And I don't watch Skins so I have no idea what you're talking about. :)  Paul  730 23:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I think Dracula probably initiated the penpal relationship (unless it specifically says Xander did?). I read a fan fic where someone tried to explain it by saying Xander wrote to Dracula because he was feeling lonely in his grief for Anya, and Dracula was someone who was friends with Anya so he could potentially share in his grief. Seems like a bit of a stretch. I think it was more likely Drac's ego was bruised after his fight with Buffy, so he kept in touch with his "manservant" to make him feel better. Xander probably fell under the thrall briefly when he read and replied to the letters, maybe kept it secret from the Scoobs out of embarrassment. Don't know what motivated him to move to Transylvania though... though I'd guess the thrall played a bigger part than Andrew would like to admit.  Paul  730 00:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Loved it, bloody loved it. Donna is my favourite companion, she was hilarious and also very sweet and vulnerable. The scene where she waved to her grandfather from the TARDIS was quite emotional, I thought. My boss, who actively hates Catherine Tate, hates Donna because she just acts like a character out of her sitcom. I resent that (and argue with him constantly because of it) - I think Donna is much more than just a Catherine Tate character and her relationship with the Doctor is the most interesting so far IMO because of it's platonic simplicity. This series looks amazing. I was unsure of the Adipose at first, they looked a bit rubbish, but I couldn't help but really like them. They were very Doctor Who because they were so silly.  Paul  730 00:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Bond and the Doctor

A bisexual Bond, I'm not trying to be homophobic but if Fleming was not bisexual, then neither should his alter-ego (even if it's the 21st century version of the character under EON). The mysognist in Bond would also be lessened. Still, these Craig rumours of wanting the character to be gay are just rehashes of comments when he was filming Infamous being taken out of context. He's such a versatile actor though, his voice would've made him a good M.

Jack's yet to take on the Doctor's iconic status, but you should look around for Christian analogies in Doctor Who: not just that darn Christian Voice criticising "Voyage of the Damned". There was a conference discussing religious themes in the show actually. [3] The Doctor is a secular messiah: no wonder all the kids at my church just love the show. Well, it's brilliantly made too, but you get my joke. Alientraveller (talk) 16:14, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Doctor Who newsletter, March 2008

	The Space-Time Telegraph
	The WikiProject Doctor Who newsletter
	Issue 1	March 2008
Project News We have five new participants: Sm9800, Seanor3, T saston, Type 40, Jammy0002. One editor has left the project: StuartDD. The Doctor Who portal has expanded to increase the number of selected stories to 33. Articles of note New featured articles None New featured article candidates Voyage of the Damned (Doctor Who) (FAC) New good articles Dalek (Doctor Who episode) Astrid Peth Delisted articles None Proposals A proposal for changing the layout of the episode pages is under way here. A discussion about the formatting of the cast lists in episode pages is under way here. A discussion to move United Nations Intelligence Taskforce to UNIT is under way here. News The Torchwood project has become a task-force under the project's scope. The Torchwood series 2 finale airs on 4th April, and the 4th series of Doctor Who will start to air on 5th April. For the Doctor Who project, Sceptre (talk) 19:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC) You have received this letter because you are on the newsletter recipients list. To opt-out, please remove your name.