User talk:LeQuattroStagioni/archive1

Barnstar Award

For your interest and contributions to Il Divo related articles I hereby present you the Il Divo Star Award.Rosa 21:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your work in translating the Il Divo articles into Malay, you really deserve this award :) btw, are you going to the concert in Kuala Lumpur next Tuesday? Rosa 21:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the star. I am currently doing the Il Divo's members page including adding the photos in there - so then people can tell who is who :) I will add the photos in the english members page as well. About the 16 January concert,.. ohh yea.. I will be in the front seat, wish if I could bring a camera but I was told that we cant! Looking forward to see them live Jay 02:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Image:220px-CarlosS.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:220px-CarlosS.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

1. Go to the image description page and edit it to add {{Replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Chowbok ☠ 00:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I have edited it and also put some comments. The photos are from random users/post in Il Divo's Forum - Jay 02:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

More replaceable fair-use images

• Image:220px-DavidS.jpg
• Image:220px-SebastienS.jpg
• Image:220px-UrsS.jpg

—Chowbok ☠ 01:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I have edited it and also put some comments. The photos are from random users/post in Il Divo's Forum - Jay 02:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't address the issue, which is whether these images are replaceable by free ones or not. —Chowbok ☠ 02:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The photos have been posted in Il Divo's forum board and few sites on the internet, therefore they are public photos. I dont know the definition of free because as far as they are not patented by an organization or individual, it is consider public. I am not a professional celebrity photographer as well as many people in here, so we can take singers individual photos ourselves, if that is what you considered as free. May I know, is it against the law in Wikipedia to post public photos (photos that are freely available on several sites/boards on the internet) where I have not seen any party claiming that they are the rightful owners and nobody can use them? Anyway, if I could get other photos, yes I will be happy to replace them - Jay 02:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Even though they've been copied on several websites, they are still copyrighted to somebody. We can't use such photos except under very limited circumstances, and definitely not in this case. —Chowbok ☠ 03:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Chowbok, sorry my bad, I didnt check. Those photos were published in Il Divo's official sites forum because they are photos in the Cover Album of The Christmas Collection release 2005(I have the CD with me now and the photos are in page 2,4,5 and 7. And I believe it justifies as "Replaceable fair use disputed". I noticed that photos from album covers are acceptable in Wikipedia because they are irreplaceable. I will edit the comment in the photo pages. - Jay 04:01, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

By all means dispute them, but please don't remove the "replaceable fair use" tag. An admin still needs to decide if they're replaceable or not, and that tag is how the admins know to look at it. —Chowbok ☠ 05:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok and sorry for that. - Jay 05:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

¡Hola!

How are you Jay...so, how was the concert? Did you have a good time? (how couldn't you ;) How were the voices, the music, did you like the repertoire, could you take any pics, anything out of the ordinary? and most importantly...what did you think of Seb's voice? C'mon, give me something to chew on :) Rosa 22:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The reply is in your discussion page - Jay 10:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow, what a great report. ¡Gracias! I respect your opinion about Seb's voice even if I don't agree with it; I laughed so much with your comments about him lol. About David, I totally agree! You can't really know how David's voice is in the cds. His voice is SO powerful! (I still prefer Pav much more though). Could you believe David was booed at La Scala once while performing Verdi? I still can't get my head over that one...

I'm so glad you liked the concert (I knew you would ;). Plus, you were so close to the stage WOW!

About the screaming fans, I couldn't agree more. Screaming while they're singing is so disrespectful. You were lucky though, at least it's young girls who scream for them in Asia. In the US the screaming ladies are all in their fifties and sixties and they scream to them while their husbands are sitting besides them! That's SO pathetic! lol Rosa 22:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:CarlosS.jpg

Thank you for uploading Image:CarlosS.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Oden 13:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Oden, I dont know how the page is still exist. It has been replaced with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:220px-CarlosS.jpg with justifications of the source. You can remove the entire page as it is no longer linked with the site. I dont know how to remove it. - Jay 15:34, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Photos in IL Divo's member pages

Sorry but, as explained within the deletions, WP:FUC does not, under any circumstances, allow fair-use images to be used solely to identify a living, public person. Fair use can only be justified when an image is used to illustrate text accompanying the image, such as a singer performing a song discussed within that section of text. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 05:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use means we have to be able to claim that we can use copyrighted material; photographs from the CD are copyrighted (as in, they are owned by the record label) and cannot be used merely to identify the subject. Wikipedia administrators and other editors are working on the massive job of removing images for which we cannot claim fair use and for which the encyclopedia could conceivably face legal action; this is not an excuse to add more violations. Again, I must ask that you read WP:FUC, the policy that governs what is acceptable fair use within Wikipedia. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 05:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Album covers

Under the terms of "fair use" album covers may not be used to illustrate any article except for an article about the album itself. Only under this condition would such an image be considered irreplaceable. Rklawton 05:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Good, you said it yourself. Those photos are from the CD cover of THE CHRISTMAS COLLECTION at page 2,3,4 and 5 and I have justified it at each photo pages. And that is my point on why they have to be removed. Jay 05:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you could note on each image description page that the image is of the CD/album cover and that it is only being used to illustrate the album (or sections about the album). That should suffice. I checked out four or five Il Divo-related images as well as how they are used, and they all look fine to me with one exception. I removed an image from the Il Divo article's main section because it was an album cover used to illustrate the group - and that's not permitted. Many other images of the group already exist, so the copyrighted album cover isn't necessary. But that's a different matter entirely. The album covers farther down in the article are fine because they illustrate sections dedicated specifically to that album. Likewise, the articles about these albums also use these images correctly. I think. If any of these images are not from the actual cover itself, then they wouldn't be considered fair use. For example, if an image comes from published material within an album, then it wouldn't qualify as fair use, and we'd have to delete it immediately. With regard to the images I examined, I did not check to see if they were actual album covers or something else. As noted above, if you can confirm that these images come from the CD/album cover, then just note it on each images page. Rklawton 05:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

To elaborate: album covers can not be used to illustrate a band member's article because a suitable replacement could be found. Just tap the band member on the shoulder and shoot him, er, photograph him. However, this option just isn't available for articles about the album itself. That's why we can use these images to illustrate an album article (or album section) but nothing else. There is no suitable replacement for an album cover on an article about the album. I hope this helps make things clear. It's pretty logical once you get the hang of it. WP:FUC contains the natty details, but I'm hoping my explanation helps make it clear with regard to this particular application. Incidentally, I really like your work on these articles. Cheers, Rklawton 05:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok now, I am totally lost. Robert, the whole article was written by somebody else and the album cover in the main article has been there for almost 2 years. The main page photo is the article for the whole group, name IL DIVO. Almost all singer’s articles in Wikipedia are using album covers and if it is not allowed, please make it fair to all of us, remove ALL in Wikipedia, not only Il Divo! My argument was referring to the members pages (4 members – Carlos, Sebastian, Urs and David) when the photos were removed even I have noted that they were scanned from the album cover. After I asked for your justification for the photos in the members page, you made it worst by removing the album cover in the main page that has been there for almost 2 years? Are you telling me that Wikipedia does not allow photos from the album cover? Please answer this, if your answer is “Yes, Wikipedia does not allow photo from album cover”, please go to other singers articles and do the same like what you did in Il Divo’s article. - Jay 06:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

You are correct. Album covers can only illustrate album articles. Members articles may not include album covers. Yes, we are working hard to remove all album covers from member's articles and not just those on the Il Divo article. If you see any such misuse, you can help correct it, but be certain to leave an edit summary explaining your actions. A reference to WP:FUC is also helpful. Rklawton 12:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

"chicks like guys who look like chicks"...well, not exactly...

Hola Jay, you left this message at my talk a few days ago...sorry to get back to you so late, I haven't been to Wikipedia much.

Rosa, if you could tell me.. why Il Divo’s fans (the girls including you) love Sebastian more than others? Look at the poll in Il Divo’s forum, Seb is the favorite among all. What do you ladies see in him? Please, I’m begging u to fill me in.

Okay, let's get this clear...I DO NOT love Seb more than the others! In ID forum lingo, I'm a scud with cutie tendencies. In English, that means I like them all equally but specially Carlos...(I have a thing for the flirtatious good-humored latin men lol). I'm not pure cutie because I think they're all interesting. Urs for example is simply the most handsome man I've seen in my life...he's just perfect, a role-model for all guys. Urs can be a bit boring though, he just doesn't have the "spice" and sometimes is too serious; I think he could just make a joke of some questions they're asked and move on, but no, Urs prefers to take every question seriously. David's voice is the one I prefer the most of all of the four and he's the smartest of them (trust me in this one); he has to work on his public relations though, he comes off as being many times too "hands off" with fans. And exactly there is where Seb's a genius. He is SO charismatic! He's the one who answers most letters, isn't afraid of telling his fans he loves us, even once (at the Budapest concert) he jumped a tall gate just to sign autographs for his fans who were at the other side of the fence. Not just that, he ALWAYS smiles and I believe he sincerely adores children, never denying a hug and kiss to his little sirens and giving part of his income (even before ID) to AMTM, an Asian charity. Moreover, Seb is, right after Urs, the most handsome of them, not like Urs, all muscle and poise, but in a homely, sweet way. He's got HUGE aquamarine eyes and soft features, which reminds women of children's features. You just want to hug him and care for him. His child-like looks make him look younger than he actually is (David is the youngest of them in fact) so teenage girls find him more appealing, he seems to be age-appropriate while the other ones look a bit too old ...and it's here where you got your answer...although in the western hemisphere Il Divo is most popular among matrons, in Asia it's mostly teenage girls who are fans of them. All those girls (esp. chinese, there are tons of them) just LOVE Sébastien and are the ones tipping the scales in his favor at the polls.

I think I just answered what you were asking me but I'd like to make another comment...about the voices. Jay, I assure you, when I went to their concert I was awe stricken by Urs (I just couldn't take my eyes off him and wasn't even looking at the other three), but that doesn't mean I was dumb enough to mistake physical beauty with singing capabilities. It was clear to me that he had the worst voice of the four of them; it was weak (relatively speaking of course) and not as crystal clear as I admired in the cds. The voice I liked best was David's but afterwards came immediately Sébastien's voice. In fact, I thought he as a man wasn't attractive at all; I thought he was way too artificially tanned and needed to do more excercise. I sense you're thinking that I speak wonders of his voice because I like him physically and that's simply not the case. I did like his voice, A LOT, it was strong and clear and he reached high notes easily (not so easily as David though) and even when he was just giving it all, his voice didn't loose that sweet and tender quality, it never sounded squeaky nor did it "wavered" (which happens a lot to Urs) and I thought it was VERY pleasant to listen to.

wow...that was a long explanation...I hope it answered your question satisfactorily ;) Rosa 05:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:Seb.JPG

Is this from a video you shot yourself, or is this from a copyrighted video? Rklawton 04:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

my own video taken from the concert on 18 Jan in Singapore using my Sony cybershot by my aunt. And later on, I snapshot the video to photo using Microsoft Movie Maker in my PC. FYI, I am mixed Singaporean/Malaysian living in Kuala Lumpur. You would not find the photo or video anywhere unless for those who went to the concert and sat in the 1st and 2nd row (right) during the concert - Jay 04:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Great shot! Rklawton 04:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Woohoo!

Thank you for adding the concert pics to the articles Jay. At last we have decent, trouble-free pics of them. :)Rosa 05:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Erm, possible copyvio.

I've concerned with the article Khairuddin Mohamed Yusof you created. Almost all of its content appears to be taken from this PDF document. I have tagged it as a copyright violation. You are a fairly busy editor, so I'm pretty sure you know the procedure. Thanks. Logical2u_{Review me!} 13:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Logical2u, Professor Khairuddin is someone I very much personally knows including his home address, family vice versa. I know his background more than what is written in his shareholding company.I have no idea about the published article, and how identical it is to the one that I have (I got the detail from his possession; probably he wrote that for the company). After reading about the university in wikipedia, I thought it would be good to add his profile and a bit background about him using his profile that I have.Now that I know it was published, I will do changes on his profile as soon as I could. I am against plagiarism / copyrights and I know it is not right – One of the lessons I learn from him personally. Thanks for the message. - Jay 17:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a good plan! Thanks for the reply! Logical2u_{Review me!} 17:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

David's page

Hola Jay. Just reverted your edit to David'spage. www.divodavid.com isn't a fansite but David's new page; it's integrated to Il Divo's website. He's personally answering questions submitted by the fans at "Questions and messages for David" at the Quiestion Time section of the forum. You should really see it, there's some seriously hilarious stuff there, even a close-up of the divos' mouths...creepy! They were removed but I think you may catch them at www.divodavid.com/pictures ...Seb has the best teeth, by far...LOL...Adiós, Rosa 05:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

---

Uhm ok then, I thought it was a fan site. You were saying that David answered the questions personally? Kewl.. I have list down some opera arias and for him to sing

1. Puccini: Nessun Dorma
2. Verdi: La donna è mobile
3. Handel :Svegliatevi nel core
4. Verdi: Libiamo ne' lieti calici (Duet with ... Celine Dion? haha)
5. La Capua: O sole Mio
6. Verdi: De' Miei Bollenti Spiriti

• Granada (This one for Carlos, he is a spanish!)

Let see what he has to say, huh :)) - Jay 05:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

songs

Hola Jay...long time, I know...I just looked at what you told me about Carlos singing Granada...well, he has sung Granada lots of times already. In fact at the forum there's an interview where at the end Carlos sings Granada:)http://rapidshare.com/files/1750691/34.5MB_Herman_Sic_Dec_05__NEEDS_SAVING.wmv Here's David singing as Rodolfo in La Boheme http://download.yousendit.com/914BB15865DFE3BE Rosa 05:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

l'ora è fuggita...e muoio disperato!

My favorite E Lucevan le Stelle is by Pav of course...listen to the file and we'll talk later. ;) About Granada, I think Pav's a bit...well, awful...for singing Granada I think the Spaniards' "kick" is necessary LOL. I like Placido's much better...and call me divo crazy but I think Carlos' Granada is even better. BTW, the interview I sent you is in Portuguese, German, French, Spanish, etc...were you able to understand it? Cause a few months ago I did the translation into English of the whole thing and I still save it...it's very funny too. If you want I'll email or pm it to you.

About La Bohème, that's Ekaterina Solovyeva, not Dame Kiri, God forbid LOL. David did perform La Bohème live, he shared the role with three other tenors. On the cd available he only sings on Act Three though. A friend passed me Dunque: e propio finita! and Marcello, finalmente! from that cd, O Soave Fanciulla is from the first act so I don't think there's a recording by David of that one.Rosa 21:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: that particular link doesn't work anymore...just look at Baz Luhrmann's La Boheme (Highlights from the 2002 Original Broadway Cast) CD on amazon :)Rosa 23:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Herman Sic Portugal

Hola Jay, here it is...sorry if some of my explanations seem too moronic...they were meant for a friend of mine who was absolutely clueless...LOL...Rosa 07:36, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

(Enter Il Divo)

SEB: Maybe we're going to need [another sofa]...it's very cozy here...

WOMAN IN ORANGE: You must all be so tired, poor lads...you see Herman...

HERMAN: You're the expert [on men]

WOMAN IN ORANGE: That then...isn't it true? But this isn't accurate, no...we have to give points to them (as when you're grading students)...

HERMAN: I wanted to start with the presentation.

WOMAN IN ORANGE: But we could give the points! What do you think of giving them points? Hermaaaan... (to the lady next to her) then, my dear, let's give them points! (to Herman) We want to give them points!

The lady next to her is saying how many points they should give and Herman agrees reluctantly to give them points.

WOMAN IN ORANGE: Wow Patricia! (that's the name of the skinny girl that sits on Seb's lap) Oh my God!

WOMAN IN ORANGE: You don't want to give out points! From one to ten, how much is that one? (points at Carlos)

WOMAN NEXT TO HER: Ten!

WOMAN IN ORANGE: No, I don't know...from one to ten...ten?

HERMAN: Okay, whom do we have here? David Miller... This is David Miller, he's from the USA. Hello David how are you doing?

DAVID: I'm fine, how are you doing?

HERMAN: You must be the naughtiest of them all. You have the face of a "sonsinho" (cute dumb boy), I'll translate (he doesn't actually translate so David doesn't understand) you have the face of someone who wouldn't even break a plate; you get home all innocent and say "hello" and later, when the others turn their back on you you'll do something naughty...has that ever happened to you? Don't you think I'm right?

DAVID: (he doesn't understand, and knows Herman knows he doesn't understand Portuguese but decides to play along) I think you are right.

HERMAN: You look dangerous because you have the typical softness of the lion.

DAVID: (mockingly) I have the softness of the lion.

HERMAN: Yes, you're from Ohio?

DAVID: Actually, I'm from Denver; I went to school in Ohio.

HERMAN: Yes (to the portuguese ladies) He went to school in Ohio but was born in Denver (he pronounces it "Denva", as if to mock the English pronounciation of words ). And, what brought you to Europe?

DAVID: Il Divo

HERMAN: Ah yes? The project?

DAVID: Well yeah, I mean, I was an opera singer before...I was singing for about ten years...and I met up with these guys when I was doing a production in France.

HERMAN: You spent quite a lot of time in New York.

DAVID: All around the world actually...New York...I was down in Sidney...

HERMAN: You were in Broadway, doing West Side Story... (he says it in Portuguese but David understands what he's talking about because of the words "Broadway" and "West Side Story")

DAVID: It was La Bohème on Broadway; I did West Side Story in La Scala.

HERMAN: Ah, La Bohème...you did another part on West Side Story...do you remember a piece of your singing ...what he did in Broadway was La Bohème...

DAVID: Yes, you want me to [sing a piece]?

HERMAN: Yes please

DAVID: (singing a piece of Puccini's opera, in which his character Rodolfo, a poor poet, is singing to his new found love, Mimi, a seamstress about how despite he's poor, he feels rich with love and hope) poiche, poiche v'ha preso stanza la speranza!

CROWD CHEERS

HERMAN: There was a film of Mel Brooks called, "Frankestein Junior" when a woman when she made love sang, "aaaaaahhhhhh"... Do you remember a film by Mel Brooks, Madeleine Khan (the name of the actress in that comedy) when Frankenstein made love to her, she started, "aaaahhhhhh...oh yesss...ahhhh"...and I can't imagine her with you. Do you do the same when you make love?

DAVID: aaaaahhhhhhh

HERMAN: Do you know Natalia D'Andrade? We have the most, the perfect singer in Portugal who was called Natalia D'Andrade. She had the most lovely voice. She sang a song called "Canção Verde" ("Green Song" by José Luis Abreu) do you want me to sing it to you?

HERMAN SINGING: (the song says, that the lovers' love is green "verde", "we are green, like the fields and the trees, you're green my love")

O nosso amor é verde... Nós somos verdes... Verdes, Como são os campos e as árvores Tu és verde

HERMAN: How many points for him? How many points? From zero to twenty, how many points? We are giving out notes (grades) stand up please

DAVID STANDS UP

WOMAN IN ORANGE: Twenty, with that voice twenty, twenty!

HERMAN: Twenty out of twenty, seat down please.

HERMAN: Sébastien Izambard, how are you Sébastien, are you alright?

SÉBASTIEN: I'm fine, how are you?

HERMAN: You're the Swiss, oh no, you're the french aren't you?

SEB: Yes

HERMAN: From where?

SEB: Paris

HERMAN: From Paris, I love Paris...I will go to Paris on the 14th (December)

SEB: What are you going to do at Paris?

HERMAN: Eat!

SEB: Do you already have directions? (like reservations for good restaurants)

HERMAN: Yes I have a reservation at... (Herman starts to explain where is he going to stay while in Paris, giving even the name of the street and neighborhood of his hotel and the reservation in a very good restaurant called "L'Atelier de Joel Roubouchon" ) (to Sébastien) Do you know it?

SEB: No

HERMAN: It's at the back of the Ritz Hotel.

SEB: Oh yes...

HERMAN: Isn't it perfect?

SEB: Yes, it's a very good [place]

HERMAN: Did you grow up in France?

SEB: Since I was little, all my life...

HERMAN: How old are you?

SEB: Thirty-two

HERMAN: Thirty-two?

HERMAN: Where did you learn to sing?

SEB: By myself...

HERMAN: By yourself! (to women) He learned to sing all by himself...

WOMEN: Ahhhh...poor (cute) boy...

HERMAN: Tell me, what kind of repertoire did you sing when you started?

SEB: Anything, I simply started to sing things like "La Vie en Rose" (I think he says "la vie en rose"...life in pink...but I'm not too sure, I don't know many french songs)

HERMAN: Ah, what's your favorite song?

SEB: All songs...I love all songs...

HERMAN: C'mon, sing a bit of your favorite song...sing it for this girl here, for this little miss, for little Patricia...a crazy little girl...

SEB DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO SING AND HERMAN SAYS TO GO AHEAD AND THAT IT'S HIS PROBLEM NOW

SEB SINGING: (a very small piece of the Hymn to Love, that says, "the blue sky breaks down for us") Le ciel bleu sur nous peut s'effondrer...I don't know the rest of the words...

WOMAN IN ORANGE: Aaah, why do you stop? If you were singing so nice! A penguin sings more than this! This is a spanish song that Luis Miguel also sings. It's a love song, a very nice song... (actually, I know what she's talking about, Luis Miguel is a mexican singer who sings this song in its spanish version, "Inolvidable" )

URS TRIES TO HELP SEB BY TELLING HIM THE FRENCH LYRICS BUT SEB DOESN'T REMEMBER AND TRIES TO SING "UNBREAK MY HEART" IN ITS PORTUGUESE VERSION "VOLTRA PRA MIN"...HE DOESN'T DO IT WELL

HERMAN: There's only one french song in MY repertoire ](and starts to sing a song from two very old comedians called Laurel & Hardy, a fat man and a skinny guy who are friends) C'est moi Laurel C'est toi Hardy Et nous sommes de bons amis...

HERMAN: Urs Buhler...is it Buhler or Bühler?

URS: Bühler

WOMAN:Give the points [for Seb]!

HERMAN: How many points?

WOMAN: Twenty

HERMAN: No David had twenty and he sang...fifteen points [for Seb] ...(to Seb) because you didn't sing

HERMAN: Urs, is German your mother language?

URS: Swiss-German

HERMAN: and where were you born in Switzerland?

URS: In Willisau

HERMAN: Willisau, where is that?

URS: It's a small town between Luzerne and Bern. It's exactly in the middle of Switzerland

HERMAN: Switzerland is the land of chocolate, the land of chocolate. do you eat a lot of chocolate?

URS: No, (looks at his belly) not very much...but I LOVE chocolate

HERMAN: he started to sing in public in a music band called "Conspiracy"...a rock band...

URS: Yes

HERMAN: and then you went later into opera

URS: I discovered my voice was better suited for opera than for rock music

HERMAN: So you went from rock to opera... like Pedro Muñoz! (Pedro Muñoz is an old timer musician, that's why everybody laughs)

WOMAN IN ORANGE STARTS TO BOTHER HERMAN BECAUSE HE DOESN'T COMPLETE WHAT HE'S SPEAKING WITH URS IN GERMAN

HERMAN: (to Urs) Do you like chocolate or not?

URS: Yes, I love chocolate...

HERMAN: Could you please sing us a bit of a song in German?

URS: Yes, something classical...

URS SINGING: (he sings an aria from Mozart's opera "Zauberflüte" Magic Flute, in which Tamino, a young prince, sees the face of Princess Pamina in a portrait for the first time and falls in love with her, saying that her eyes are like none he has ever seen, he feels the portrait is beautiful as the Gods)

"Dies Bildnis ist bezaubernd schön, Wie noch kein Auge je geseh'n! Ich fühl' es, Ich fühl' es, wie dies Götterbild"

HERMAN: Fantastic!

HERMAN: Carlos Marin, we only have one minute for you. Baritone from Madrid, you have performed in "Les Miserables", "The Monster", "Man from La Mancha"... thirty seconds for you to sing something extraordinary to us

CARLOS: Something extraordinary...like what?

HERMAN: Something that will let us have the pleasure of hearing you.

CARLOS: A bit from Granada?

HERMAN: Yes, of course...

CARLOS SINGING: ( Granada is a VERY famous song from southern Spain...I heard it while being just a child and I'm not Spanish but Latin American)

mi cantar hecho de fantasia (my song made from fantasy) mi cantar, flor de melancolía (my song, flower of melancholy) que yo te vengo a dar (that I come here to give to you)

HERMAN: My friends, we'll come back with Il Divo!

languages & divos

Hola Jay :) Well, actually, yes Spanish speakers ARE very lucky LOL... not only Italian but above all Portuguese are very similar. I've never received formal lessons on either of those languages but I have almost no trouble understanding them...beware, not everybody will agree with me though...foreign language skills is kind of a forte of mine ;)

About the divos during that interview...LOL, of course they couldn't understand most of what was said, specially David who only speaks English and a bit of Japanese...I wonder if he knew what the lyrics he was singing in Italian meant LOL. Besides speaking Spanish and English, Carlos speaks some German so he might have understood Urs' part of the interview. Seb only speaks French and at that time even his English was so so...reportedly he has been in Spanish and Italian lessons but at Bogota's concert his Spanish pronounciation was HORRID (David and Urs were waaayy better...which was kind of a shock for me LOL). I think Urs had the upper hand on that interview, he speaks German, French, English...nonetheless, none of them can handle Portuguese (not even Carlos it seems), so they had no idea what that crazy lady in orange and her mates were saying LOL... of course, being performers, they just smiled their way through that interview LOL.Rosa 07:32, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

unreleased track by Il Divo!

Woah Jay!...look at what a diva buddy just sent me! One of the songs that didn't make it into any of the albums! It's called "I Believe I Can Fly" (sé que puedo volar in Spanish)...I do understand why it didn't make it into the cds LOL... http://download.yousendit.com/1B6C58016A25D9B0 Rosa 07:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Very nice

Editing, great work. Keep it up! Cheers, Dfrg.msc 02:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Aida

Thanks for the nice note. I meant to put something here but didn't get round to it. As I'm sure you know, there's a lot of misinformation on the Internet, so the number of sites that have the ï doesn't mean much - they may all have copied from each other. I think of the spelling Aïda as an old-fashioned one for people who don't know how to pronounce Italian. WP policy is to use the English title if there is one that is used a lot, but Aïda isn't really English and certainly isn't used at all in current reliable printed reference sources, such as Julian Budden's three-volume "Operas of Verdi", the Viking Opera Guide, Grove, etc., etc. - or reliable online sources like the Metropolitan Opera database.

List of arias: I think these are better placed in the text where they happen. I have a plan to rewrite the synopsis anyway. Your link to the Aria Database needs fixing, BTW - try clicking it! - and that's why I didn't replace that. Best. --GuillaumeTell 10:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello again. Yes, the link to the list of arias is fine now. I've unlinked the "notable arias", however, because the general feeling at the Opera Project is that having separate entries for opera arias (except maybe ones like "Nessun dorma" that are known to the general public rather than just opera buffs) is unencyclopedic - such things would be better placed in Wikisource. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Opera/Archive12#Wikisource_for_aria_text_pages.3F.

Good work on the Donizetti operas template, though there are still a lot of stubs that need to be created (sigh!). I have a Britten one ready but need an image for the top. --GuillaumeTell 16:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Grove

I think you will find Grove enormously useful for your work on the Malay WP. The four volume paperback edition sometimes comes up for sale on eBay and it isn't always too expensive. I only have vols 2 to 4 so I am on the lookout for vol 1! Best.--Kleinzach 08:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Handel Oratorios

great job on the template and adding it to all the pages -- it looks great! Fred 14:36, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Picture researcher

Hi, Jay, First of all I think we'd be delighted if you liked to work on photos. It's good for the look of the pages, and the visual element is important in opera anyway. As for using a still from a DVD, I don't know the answer. That is precsiely why I think we need a specialist to take this on - to learn what is allowed and what isn't and do the selecting and processing. It's complicated because (1) I'm not sure how far we as non-Americans are bound by American law which can be quite different from European or Malaysian, (2) anything that appears on WP seems to be used freely on other sites as well. The latter is important because agents normally are happy to give permission to use publicity shots on websites, but not have them proliferate all over the net. (There are thousands of opera shots on my website (all of them with permissions) but I wouldn't be able to put them on WP, even if I knew how to do it!) --Kleinzach 04:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Roles

Hi. I see from Don Carlos that you are translating role names into English! Actually we keep these in the original language - if they are proper names. See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera#Roles. Thanks and regards. -- Kleinzach 06:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You'll see that I've added the première singers to I due Foscari and Alzira and redlinked the important ones. Do you have access to the rest, or shall I slot them in as time permits? A couple of points: there's no need to link soprano, tenor etc., more than once. And the correct article title to pipe "bass" from is called bass (vocal range), not "basso", which is a redirect. --GuillaumeTell 13:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:List of Plácido Domingo's recordings

I just converted it to a redirect, it didn't really need to be deleted. That kinda thing happens all the time --Closedmouth 14:00, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and you should probably ask an admin to merge the histories of the two article, seeing as you did a non-standard "cut-paste" move, rather than through the "move" button at the top of the page --Closedmouth 14:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Categories in opera recordings or opera singers recordings

Yes I'm sure that's right. I was thinking it would be best if it didn't appear in lists of people, but you have found the right category with opera recordings. Best -- Kleinzach 10:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Noted arias

While I generally think your additions of Noted arias are useful, especially with their references to acts and scenes, your list for Don Giovanni managed to omit the probably most notable: Là ci darem la mano which was included in the list you replaced. Could you please restore it? Thanks.
Similarly, you might want to include Soave sia il vento (Trio) from Così fan tutte, Act I, Scene II. Michael Bednarek 12:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Thanks for your help on this. I've been removing them from historic singers, but your action is really helpful in confronting this issue. (Incidentally the main problem with 70.69.51.111 was racial abuse not infoboxes as such.). Best. -- Kleinzach 11:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Verbest.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Verbest.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Navigation boxes

Hi, I wonder if you are still doing navigation boxes? Am I allowed to make a request? No hurry of course, but I am wondering if you might have time to do Jules Massenet. Best. -- Kleinzach 04:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. That's great. There is a list of operas in The opera corpus. -- Kleinzach 04:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much. One minor point - the order in which the operas are listed in The opera corpus is alphabetical. Best. -- Kleinzach 07:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Great. They are very useful and The opera corpus is fairly complete and accurate now. -- Kleinzach 09:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The form of the titles in The opera corpus should be correct so I'd be grateful if you didn't change them. Sometimes the forms in the articles may be wrong. That's why I always try to add to the list rather than change anything. We don't want to introduce errors. (Also we are trying to keep statistics. See the bottom of the page.) -- Kleinzach 09:59, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I checked Rossini and I thought I'd got them all. If you find some more can you let me know. Re Rameau I have checked these now. Perhaps I should have explained that our alphabetical order involves ignoring articles ('a' and 'the' in English, 'Le' 'la' 'Les' in French etc etc.) as explained on the project page.) Maybe it's easier if you give me the names and I enter them? That way I can also do the statistics. Thanks. -- Kleinzach 11:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Vissi d'arte

I can't delete this redirect under speedy, as it doesn't fall under any of the WP:CSD speedy reasons for redirects, you'll need to use RfD. I'm not sure why it was done as a redirect, in any case. I'd think it notable enough for an article--two of the other arias have articles, and the general rule on songs permits it. DGG 16:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

sure, that's why I asked. It now fits into a general category of housekeeping, and I will now delete it. Sorry I bothered you about it. I may write the page myself sometime if nobody else does.DGG 17:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Whoa! Stop!! Re: Arthur Sullivan

Hello, Jay. Thanks, but please do NOT put the Sullivan box on the G&S article pages. Sullivan's other works, ok, but not the G&S articles. There is already a G&S TEMPLATE at the bottom of those pages for navigation. Thanks! -- The WP:G&S (G&S Project). -- Ssilvers 05:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Berlioz

Hi, Jay, I hope you don't mind me stealing your basic template to create a navbox for the compositions of Hector Berlioz (here). Since he only wrote three genuine operas (plus an unperformed one and an oratorio-like work which is sometimes staged), I thought I wouldn't bother doing a navbox just for those. I think it's turned out OK, but if there are any problems just let me know (or delete it entirely if necessary). Thanks. --Folantin 16:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

It didn't work out for some of the shorter articles. I changed it to a less obtrusive template to be placed at the bottom of the page. Cheers. --Folantin 17:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Navigation boxes (again)

Don't worry, not a big problem I think. There are only two 'daughter' projects: Gilbert & Sullivan and Wagner. I can let you lnow if we need more boxes. Present set look excellent - very worthwhile! Best. -- Kleinzach 04:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

How about Wolf-Ferrari when you have time? -- Kleinzach 00:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Berlioz has been done - how about Cui? -- Kleinzach 01:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks I've seen the discussion on The Magic Flute and said my piece. These things are difficult to avoid completely. Just let me know if you have difficulties! -- Kleinzach 04:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Parsifal.jpg)

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Orphaned non-free image (Image:Theverybest.jpg)

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If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Young domingo.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Young domingo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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new cd

Hola Jay :) Sorry for replying to you so late, it just skipped my mind...oops ;) I'm pretty sure Il Divo won't be releasing a new album this year but early next (they will record a new album on the last months of 2007). Barbra Streisand released a cd this semester which features 3 (or 2) songs in duet (quintet) with Il Divo; the same songs they sang together on her 2006 USA tour. Il Divo is releasing an official biography in September of this year, it's called Il Divo in our own words. Adiós, Rosa 15:03, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

John Adams (composer)

Hi! I am wondering if you might have time for a new navigation box fro the operas of John Adams (composer)? Best wishes. -- Kleinzach 03:45, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I am wondering though whether we might have a line break in I Was Looking at the Ceiling and Then I Saw the Sky after Ceiling. Is that possible? It would save some white space. -- Kleinzach 12:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

This month's composers Salieri and Sarti

Would you also have time to do navigation boxes for these two? Thanks. -- Kleinzach 10:02, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. They look great! -- Kleinzach 14:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Scroll

It's not mine, I stole it! I was looking at the Lewis Hamilton page after the Grand Prix this afternoon when I noticed it at the bottom and thought it would be handy on some of the longer opera articles. I just copied it outright (I don't have the technical skills to do anything more) and it worked fine. Glad you like it too. Cheers. --Folantin 15:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Nessun Dorma/Paul Potts

Just wanted to quickly thank you for keeping Paul Pott's name out of the "Nessun Dorma" article.
NewYork1956 21:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Rossini template

Did you create the Rossini template?

I was wondering if you could direct me to the proper pages so that I may create a template like this one,

Or perhaps you could help?

--Mrlopez2681 04:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Random Smile!

WarthogDemon has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

-WarthogDemon 05:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

The Merry Widow

If you have a moment, would it be possible to do a roles table for this one. Thanks! -- Kleinzach 00:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much - also for the navigation box! -- Kleinzach 01:51, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Parsifal

Thanks for improving the recordings table in Parsifal! It looks much better than my sophomore efforts. I'll add some of those catologue numbers ASAP.--Dogbertd 11:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Wu Pak Chiu

Thanks for adding your support for keeping this article. It would be a pity to lose it. I'm going to try making some enquiries on a couple of opera forums to see if anyone has any information about sources we could use. Best, Voceditenore 10:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Category:Operas by Pietro Mascagni box

Hi. I'm wondering if this is a good time to start a navigation box for the operas of Mascagni?

Also, did you see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Opera#Opera_navigation_boxes? I've asked here about adding 'v.d.e' and 'hide' buttons to a bar at the bottom of the box. Best. -- Kleinzach (talk) 00:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I really like the present design (top right corner) and I think other people also like the position. That's why I suggested putting the 'v.d.e' and 'hide' buttons on the bottom of the box. I realize it's technically difficult - that's why I asked the Infobox project. Thanks for doing Mascagni! -- Kleinzach (talk) 13:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone on the Infobox Project has provided the code for putting the 'v.d.e' on the bottom of the box. The code is:

|- style="background-color: silver; color:black" align=center
| {{tnavbar|Template Name|mini=1}}
|}

I've used it on Template:Adams operas as an example. What do you think? [Hide/Show] is much more tricky as it would mean 'concertina'-ing the box which so far no-one is sure how to do. Best -- Kleinzach (talk) 07:34, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for working on Template:Mascagni operas. I've now corrected both that and Template:Adams operas so the 'v.d.e' work, however I think Template:Adams operas is more balanced and really looks better even if it isn't collapsible. What do you think? -- Kleinzach (talk) 15:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I do think we should keep a standard design for the navigation boxes. We have had a centralized discussion about it. It's reasonable for us to go ahead with it now. (BTW, I've already removed red-links from a couple of other boxes.) -- Kleinzach 15:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I've now changed Krenek to the standard format. Best. -- Kleinzach 03:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Opera banners

Hi, I know this is a bit late - sorry about that - but I've been wondering about the use of the opera banner on template talk pages. The banner places the pages in a category called Opera articles - the problem is that templates are not articles. What do you think? -- Kleinzach 01:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

You make a good point. What if I make a special version of the banner for templates that doesn't list the template in Category:WikiProject Opera articles? It should look identical but not have the code. What about that? -- Kleinzach 03:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Good. I've done one here: Template:Opera (non-article). Let me know if you think it's OK. -- Kleinzach 06:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Category:Operas by Ruggiero Leoncavallo

Maybe it's time for a navbox for Leoncavallo? What do you think? -- Kleinzach (talk) 10:21, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Kleinzach (talk) 13:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Placido Domingo

I know that there are confusing entries in other websites re Placido Domingo's honorary doctorates, but I believe it is due to mis-translations or mis-understandings by Spanish speakers. There is no "University of New York." The State University of New York has several campuses and they have not given PD honorary doctorates. New York University, a private university located in New York City, gave him a honorary doctorate in May of 1970; this can be confirmed by the New York Times article I mentioned in the edit summary. It can also be confirmed at NYU web sites. If you would care to see this on your own and remove your change, I would appreciate it, as I do not want to just click "undo" without explaining further the issue. Thank you. - —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marciamaria (talk • contribs) 17:32, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for help on this. I am helpless at writing down the references in proper format; perhaps you could help. If you google "Placido Domingo," "New York University," and "honorary doctorate," you will come to an article written in the New York Times on May 18, 1990, which states that he was given an honorary doctorate (the day before?; not sure). Thank you again. - Marciamaria (talk) 04:04, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

"Bouncing Tosca"

I've added a note on the TALK page supporting removal of what you originally removed, so add your support there and then let's get rid of it. Viva-Verdi (talk) 02:22, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Since you already reverted it, see above comment. You have my support. Viva-Verdi (talk) 02:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Beware of standard format for opera cast boxes.

Hi, I've just corrected errors you introduced into Das Rheingold and Die Walküre. There were no revised versions. They had separate premieres and then were done as part of a complete cycle where various singers were the first to sing the full roles of Wotan, Alberich, Mime, Brünnhilde, the Rheinmaidens etc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter cohen (talk • contribs) 00:38, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

e lucevan le stelle

I've reinstated the phrase on the similarity of the first theme of the aria to the opera's closing bars. It strikes me as a more useful observation than the anodyne sentence which precedes it. Let's debate on Talk if necessary. Bob aka Linuxlad (talk) 08:20, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Rossini roles framework

Hi, Jay. Thanks for putting in the frames here and there (I am filling them up with role creators), BUT I don't think that arranging the characters in alphabetical order is very sensible. We really need the principals first and the confidants and minor roles towards the end. Best. --GuillaumeTell (talk) 17:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, not to worry, I'll move them around based on what I know + info from Kobbé or Grove.--GuillaumeTell (talk) 17:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I was just revising the Mose/Moise table myself and I've put it in instead of yours. It's very confusing because in the revised version some names are changed and some are used for different characters! Urgh! I have the casts of both premieres, so I'll add those in. --GuillaumeTell (talk) 18:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Renewed Vandalism on Plácido Domingo

Hi Jay, can you keep an eye on the page, I'm already on my second revert today. See Talk Page. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 12:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hans Werner Henze

Hi, how are you? I've just realized we've never done navboxes for the 12 Henze operas. It would be great if you have time - sometime - to fix them. No hurry! Best wishes. -- Kleinzach (talk) 01:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Much appreciated. -- Kleinzach (talk) 05:30, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Edward Solomon operas

Thanks for working on these articles. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Marleau's removal of opera recordings

I've added a note to his page saying pretty much the same thing: don't remove a complete listing just because some info is missing. Viva-Verdi (talk) 15:38, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The box has now been removed TWICE. I've posted a note on each editor's page and one on the talkl page of the Butterfly article. Maybe you can go there and add some criteria. Viva-Verdi (talk) 18:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Removal of opera recordings

Sorry about that, I meant well but realised now it was not the right way of doing it. Marleau (talk) 12:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

'Please look at the TALK PAGE and lay out your reasoning rather than just reverting'

Reasoning is given in edit summary. I deleted the whole section which is normal practice for POV and/or unsourced material - put references in when you add material and you will avoid such deletions. Mighty Antar (talk) 23:18, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Navigation boxes subpage

Hi. This is just a note to say that I have made a sub-page for Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Navigation boxes to try to 'slim' down the project page a little. Hope it's OK. Best. -- Kleinzach (talk) 07:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Portal

Good morning - after all we share the same morning! The portal looks great. The purple, black and gold it very strong and I like the large text size!

Some suggestions:

• 1) Change 'Things you can do' into 'Opera Project Introduction' using the project logo at the top of the box
• 2) Remove The Opera Project from the list of Related Wiki Projects and Portals and put in the Contemporary Music Project instead.
• 3) Have a composers of the month box - with a short text intro - with a picture
• 4) Have a Singers of the month box - with a short text intro - with a picture

What do you think? I'm happy to help you now you have set this up so convincingly! Congratulations.--Kleinzach (talk) 23:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. It's looking good. I'll have some time early next week and I'll have a go at it then if that's OK for you. Best. --Kleinzach (talk) 12:25, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I've edited Plácido Domingo - there weren't many problems! --Kleinzach (talk) 05:14, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Lucia di Lammermoor

An italian book was also deleted from La traviata. I've asked the editor about it directly, see User_talk:Special-T#Opera_references. --Kleinzach (talk) 13:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Some info if you could answer

Just curious, do you know why it is called “Elitist snob” and what is the different with “Opera purist”? I couldn’t get straight answer from my searching on the net. PS- I been thinking it must have been cool to have “Opera purist” article in here. - Jay (talk) 10:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

OK. First I'm not sure myself about what 'opera purist' means - opera is so diverse. A 'bel canto purist' would be someone who values bel canto over other styles of singing. But in the case of 'opera purist' it's not clear what the comparison is.

'Elitist snob' is not good English. On WP it's a redirect to Elitism. Snob is easy to define obviously.

In Anglo-American culture there is a strong anti-opera attitude we encounter sometimes, due to opera being thought of as (1) foreign (2) very expensive, and (3) belonging to a social elite. We sometimes see this 'red-neck' attitude on WP. Anglo-Americans don't understand that Italian opera is popular culture in Italy etc. --Kleinzach (talk) 13:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I know there are no straight answers for these and that troubles me (not that I enjoyed it). Here is some unofficial info I gathered. There are no verifiable references for those except here and there from some articles on the net or books.

1. Elitist – In those days, operas were performed mainly for nobles, wealthy patrons’ a.k.a Elite group (Elitists). And these people funded opera houses and have their permanent seats.

No, this is not true except for the earliest opera (or Haydn's Esterházy for example). Take Paris and London for example, the aristocracy went to the opera, but so did the (upper) middle class, and in Italy everybody including the working class went. --Kleinzach (talk) 22:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

1. Snob - Some people today (mostly popular music listeners or those who don’t like opera) added “snob” after the Elitist, yea.. well for no apparent reason just to make fun of it; the fact is opera singers voices are a bit weird to the ears of those who don’t like it.

Hence, “Elitist snob”

1. Opera purists - to my understanding are opera fanatic fans who like the originality of opera to be maintained / preserved. Such concerts like “The three tenors” are big sins to them.

Yes - you can use 'opera purist' in that sense. --Kleinzach (talk) 22:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Forget about Baz Luhrmann ‘s “broadway” stye La traviata, it is definitely a big NO to them (well I hate it too). Next, hmmm, popular culture adaptations (or .....“trivia”) are issues to them especially if the usage of opera in the adaptation looks like undermining the art of the opera (now it starts to sound like me because I don’t like trivia too). Purists also kinda treat Opera like some sort of sacred arts, therefore it is like a “sin” to reform the art into something new or change the art from how it supposed to be (you must be smiling reading this because you probably have seen me saying that I “am not”. Yes, I am NOT. Ok, pls just ignore it.)

No, this is an opera traditionalist.--Kleinzach (talk) 22:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

So far, that is all what I could gathered about Opera “Elitists” and “Purists”. Probably right or probably wrong. If you have any info about these later on, hopefully you could let me know. Anyway, thanks for your reply. - Jay (talk) 15:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)