User talk:Tiamut/Archive 5

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		This is for all the work you did from July to spetember on articles relating to palestine. You deserve this, and your work is appreciated. Cheers! SJP:Happy Verterans Day! 23:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

List of massacres during the Second Intifada

Talk:List of massacres during the Second Intifada Looking for outside input into a long-term controversy over the naming and scope of this list. As you participated in the afd, please help us out. Thanks. <<-armon->> 11:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Tiamut

Hi taimut. how are you? what have you been up to?

I've been changing my wikipedia involvement slightly. i have been focusing lately more on conceptual articles, and straight factual articles. it's a blast. it's even soothing in a way. when i need a slight mental diversion, I go to my recent new article which i created, state license. you'll see what i mean. It's kind of broad and varied, without being controversial or too scattered.

anyway, just thought I'd see what you're up to. i still look in sometimes on Isr-Palest articles, but not as much as before. Feel free to write. --Steve, Sm8900 21:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Samaritan

Hi Tiamut. I'm happy to see back in there the material you restored. Just one small point. 'Samaritan . .(Druze) communities.' The communities refers to Druze but grammatically it reads back to imply there are Palestinian Samaritan communities. As far as I know the Nablus-Mr Gerizim Samaritan community is Palestinian, in the sense that they belong to that territory, and do not closely identify with Israel, as does the other Samaritan community at Holon. It's just a small point. But it's worth checking out to see if there is more than this one Samaritan community in Palestine. regards Nishidani (talk) 16:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

G'day and thanks, Tiamat. That's interesting stuff, and I'll read it with care. My own thoughts were influenced by reading Sean Ireton's MA dissertation, 'The Samaritans - A Jewish Sect in Israel Strategies for Survival of an Ethno-religious Minority in the Twenty First Century,' which is available on line. Apparently, the Holon Samaritans are assimilating to the Jewish world, whereas the Nablus group is still keen on preserving its distinct identity. I'll keep looking. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 21:41, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, he actually conducted most of his anthropological research on the Mt Gerizim settlement. By the way, I particularly thought of you when reading his phrasing 'Palestinian Samaritans'. Good luck with it!Nishidani (talk) 15:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I love you

--Ravpapa (talk) 06:59, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

CFD discussion

As you are Arab-Israeli I would be interested in your opinions being expressed here:

• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 November 23

Please note the 3 category sections I am commenting in.

I have a question. Do Arab-Israelis consider themselves "Palestinian"? I am wondering what a subcategory for Arab-Israelis massacred in Israel would be called?

See the talk section titled "Category:Massacres of Palestinians in Israel". That category is up for deletion. One of the reasons being that this very new category only has 2 items listed in it currently. Should there be a category called "Massacres of Arab-Israelis in Israel"? It would be a subcategory of Category:Massacres in Israel.

I note that there is this category: Category:Palestinian suicide bomber attacks against buses. So in categories there seems to be specificity as to who is on the giving and receiving end of massacring. Other examples are given on the CFD talk page. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

My response Wiki Poem

Hi! i've read your wiki poem (does it have a name besides just wiki-poem?) and i've decided to do my own as a response to yours, hope u'll like it
How can it be misunderstood?
Isn't all of History enough?
Or even the events of the 20th Century
to be more than a reason?
What more does it take?
how many more must be sacrified?
before you'll agree to accept us?
We came to escape from our fate over there
and it wasn't only in Europe but also in Iraq

So we wanted to start a new page in our history
and where could it better be done?
if not in the place we were once independent and free
the place where our bible was written and
the place archeology only gives a further push
so we came and we built and do u hate me for that?
it's not as things we so great if u ask me about that
and even if some final touches must be made
it sure beats the alternative,
we can all agree on that

So if we shall say we can live together
That this land is big enough for both of us
you, in your country, and me in mine
than we must take away the hate
and also the insecurity
cause everyone are entitled to the most safest place on earth
and may peace be soon upon us!

Oren neu dag (talk) 14:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

You have mail. Gatoclass (talk) 11:06, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

The lists

Whilst there is the possibility that the victims identify as Palestinians (which we don't know anyway, and therefore would breach WP:OR), they are Israeli citizens, not Palestinian citizens. пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:03, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I still disagree. They are Israeli civilians regardless of their ethnicity (Israeli does not mean Jewish) and there is a seperate list for Israeli civilians. пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

With regards to the list, even with a footnote I still think it is a bit misleading, as I would say the vast majority of people do not consider Israeli Arabs to be Palestinians. On a personal note, I have also lived in Israel as a non-Jew, and might do again at some point, but I wouldn't say my ethnicity was ever an issue - I was treated the same as everyone else. пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

RE:Beit Ur at-Tahta

Oops. I apologize, didn't look into that. I just checked the history section and saw he 'created a new page' and so I added it to the new articles section of the Project. Honestly, I don't think its a big deal but yea I guess you could remove it or add a note or something like that. Salaam! --Al Ameer son (talk) 01:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Finally! The White Mosque

Thank you for creating an article on the White Mosque in Nazareth. I was going to request it but I guess I just forgot. Anyways kudos on the article, I'm going to see if I can find any source I can expand the article on. Cheers! --Al Ameer son 16:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I found some tour sites and I extracted all the info I could from them including a brief name history. This link here, I think may contradict with the article and other sites because it says after the reign Jezzar Pasha. Do you think its just a mistake or something else entirely? --Al Ameer son 17:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Sebastia (town) to Sebastiya

Hey I'm thinking about moving the Sebastia (town) article to Sebastiya. Its the town's Arabic transliteration, the PCBS spelling and we could remove the (town) or (West Bank) parts of the heading without running into other Sebastias in wikipedia. You created the article and expanded it significantly, what do you think? No or Go? --Al Ameer son 05:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I see your point, I'll just redirect Sebastiya to the article. Cheers! --Al Ameer son 17:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello again, dear Tiamut

Thank you for your kind note; but I really shouldn´t be here: I am up to my neck in non-WP business.... and I will be so at least until long into 2008. :-( Nothing I can do about it, I´m afraid. So I am just doing a quick "guest-performance", so to speak. Take care! Huldra 08:28, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK backlog

I'm afraid I'm too busy chipping away at my own backlog. I'm busy reviewing a good article candidate which is already suffering from an immense delay that is basically my fault. I owe it to everyone involved to wrap it up as soon as I can. Sorry. - Mgm|^(talk) 13:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

White Mosque link

I fixed the link and apparently another link I added was the same as yours so I just made it consistent and added the subtitle to the title. --Al Ameer son 03:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Ein Hod

Fast indeed! I was just filling out my own report.. ;-) I tried to get the page semi-protected earlier today, but that was declined as "There is not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection at this time." Oh well, if this continues we will just have to try again. Thanks for the help! Huldra 15:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Category decision

Hi there! About the decision you rendered concerning the renaming of Category:Massacres of Palestinians in Israel to Category:Massacres in Israel during the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, don't you think that is a rather broad category? Almost all the massacres in Israel took place during the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Could you clarify your rationale further? Thanks. Tiamut 16:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

You are welcome to nominate the new category for merging with Category:Massacres in Israel, if you feel that that is appropriate. Note, though, that Israel has history besides the history of the I-P conflict. - jc37 16:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I think my concern is that the proposed category, besides seeming marginally redundant, does not really reflect its current contents. The events in Category:Massacres of Palestinians in Israel is somewhat lost within your proposed rename Category:Massacres in Israel during the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. It almost misleads the reader into thinking the victims of the massacres in question are Israelis, rather than Palestinians. Perhaps an altogether new category is required? Tiamut 17:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

No. What it does, is not differentiate who was being massacred in Israel. This was one of several concerns that came out of the discussion. Please, read the whole closure. - jc37 17:11, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I read the closure for Category:Massacres of Palestinians in Israel - I wonder if you read my comment there at the end where I allude to the difficulties with geographical categorization. (That is, where do the boundaries of Israel or Palestine lie exactly, given the varying boundaries at different points in history and the differing interpretations around where they lies today? I fear this solution might fuel territorial disputes.) But you seem to be quite adamantly sure that Category:Massacres in Israel during the Arab-Israeli conflict is the right answer. Should there be a [[:Category:Massacres in Palestine during the Arab-Israeli conflict then to address those that took place prior to the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948? Thanks for considering this. Tiamut 17:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I read your comments, and those of the others commenting. I don't intend on being involved in discussions about which future categories or subcats should or should not exist. (Which was part of my comment on asking you to read the whole closure. Note the last section...) I'm sure there are several talk pages on which you could start some discussions about this, however. I wish you well in attempting to find consensus. - jc37 17:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your time then. Tiamut 17:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

In hindsight, that last comment may have come across a bit "harder" than I intended. If so, I apologise. I merely wished/wish to stay neutral, while at the same time attempt to clarify the closure. Anyway, I hope you're having a great day : ) - jc37 11:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

That's okay. You have a great day too. :) Tiamut 16:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Really Great Job!!!

All I have to say is My God! You have created over a dozen maybe two dozen articles on former Palestinian villages in just two days! I'm very happy to see such encouraging activity for such an important subject.

I'll be honest, I've been really concentrating on existing Palestinian localities in Israel and Palestine and before, the Yasser Arafat article and have been somewhat neglecting the former villages. Your diligent and constant work has actually gotten me excited and I've been starting a few new articles myself. Certainly more to come! Again, Great Job! --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 6 December, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article White Mosque, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

—Wknight94 (talk) 03:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Congats! --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:45, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Former villages template

Marhaba Tiamut, what do you think of creating an infobox template for all of the former village articles. I have discussed it with User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] on the Project discussions page here, and we both agree that it should be done, however neither of us know much about templates. I'm not sure if you do either. But if you do know or know another Project member that knows, we should really make the infobox. It will better organize the article and make them consistent with each other. I tried by mimicking the infobox for PNA localities but some technical problems hampered its success. If you are interested please tell me so we and other Project users can work on it together. Mah' as-Salamme! --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Heres my attempt weeks ago. Template:Infobox Former Arab villages in Palestine --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The only things I can think of changing and adding would be the color from light green to dark green, so it doesn't appear homogeneous with the Pal muni infobox. The addition would be the modern Israeli locality(ies) built on the village's jurisdiction if any. By the way great work! --Al Ameer son (talk) 15:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I know, its frustrating but you have done a good job on the template as far as I can see. Continue your adjustments and get to back to me so I can help distribute the infoboxes to the former village articles. Good luck! --Al Ameer son (talk) 16:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I added the infobox to the Balad ash-Sheikh and al-Bassa articles. I think they're perfect, you did a good job on it. I'll continue distributing once you give me the green light. Salaam! --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I see you have been adding them to articles already, I'm taking that as a green light. --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Did you know? was updated. On 7 December, 2007, a fact from the article Apheca, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Adam Cuerden ^talk 09:45, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 8 December, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Qadas, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri (talk) 12:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yasur (kibbutz)

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Re:Archbishop

Oh, I thought the opposite. I just read the guideline you provided and yes, I'll move it back. Cheers! --Al Ameer son (talk) 21:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 21:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Village importance-ratings for Project Palestine

Ahlan Tiamut, I wanted to discuss with you the importance ratings of former Arab villages in Palestine. I've noticed you've made several of them high-importance and I think that will just clutter that level with stubs of villages rarely anyone has heard of. I was thinking of putting them down a level to mid-importance. Populous or notable villages or towns like Deir Yassin, Beit Jibrin, Balad ash-Sheikh, al-Tira (Haifa) and al-Faluja and perhaps other major towns I forgot to mention, could and should be of high-importance but most of the others are just like any other locality in Palestine except the fact they were emptied out whether by fear, expulsion, demand or attack. I think the 'high-importance' status level should be reserved for these special exceptions, top Palestinian leaders (ministers, secretary-generals, historical figures [fighters, regional rulers], influential politicians), some ministries, major events that are not included in the top-importance section, peace agreements, cultural-related articles, major mosques and churches, etc.

Of course these are only my thoughts and my opinion and if you disagree we could have some sort of a vote on the project discussion page. Salaam! --Al Ameer son (talk) 21:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)