User talk:The Four Deuces/Archives/2009/February

November 2008

Welcome to Wikipedia. The recent edit you made to Canada and the 2004 United States presidential election has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing. Thank you. jackelfive (talk) 10:40, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Conservatism

While I agree with what you wrote, I fear it is too controversial to survive as the lede. We need something that is carefully neutral. What I suggest is picking a standard textbook, for example, "Political Science" by Robert Heineman, not as a reference (the lede should not contain references) but as a totally routine and uncontroversial text that is available in paperback. Here is what is says about American Conservatism, "As a philosophical position, conservatism has often been overshadowed by liberalism in the United States. In contrast, conservatism has a long and continuous heritage in Europe. Much of this difference can be traced to the historical variations between the United States and Europe. In Europe, conservative views have found strong support among religious groups, the military, and landowning classes. The institutions based on these forces continued to exercise political and social power long after the feudal period in which they gained ascendancy. In the United States, none of these institutions has been powerful for any length of time. In the twentieth century conservatism has been plagued by an often uncomfortable alliance between traditional conservatives and laizzes-faire conservatives."

See what I mean? Dull, but factual and to anyone well-read, utterly non-controversial. Of course, we can't quote it, but we can say something along those lines.

Then the material you wrote can be fitted in further down in the article, maybe in a section on the rise of modern American conservatism.

Rick Norwood (talk) 14:15, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I think we need to follow the textbooks in tracing conservatism in the United States to an uneasy alliance between small government liberals and social conservatives, because the two groups have very little in common. Maybe we can collaborate. Here is my attempt to rewrite your version. Let me know what you think.:

Conservatism in the United States

Conservatism in the United States is a political alliance between two different groups, one in favor of small government and free enterprise, the other in favor of laws that reflect their religious beliefs, especially laws against abortion and homosexual marriage.

There has always been a conservative tradition in America, in the sense in which the word is used in Europe, to indicate a strong belief in God and country, but the modern American conservative movement was first popularized when Russell Kirk, in 1963, wrote The Conservative Mind. In 1955, William F. Buckley formed the National Review, a publication for conservative writers, which included traditionalists, such as Kirk, libertarians, and anti-communists. This bringing together of separate ideologies under a conservative umbrella was known as "fusionism".

Modern conservatism saw its first political success with the 1964 nomination of Barry Goldwater, author of The Conscience of a Conservative (1960), as the Republican candidate for president. In 1980, the conservative movement was able to attract disaffected Southern Democrats, cold-war liberal democrats, and evangelical Christians to nominate and elect the Republican candidate Ronald Reagan as president. Subsequent victories included gaining a Republican congressional majority in 1994 and the election of George W. Bush in 2000.

The opponents of conservatism are often referred to as "liberals", and the two movements are often referred to as right-wing and left-wing, respectively. Outside the United States, the term conservative usually refers to supporters of the establishment, including monarchy, aristocracy, and church, while liberals support private enterprise, small government, and individual freedom. In these terms, small government conservatives are liberal conservatives, an expression not used in America, but common in Europe.

Rick Norwood (talk) 21:23, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Your rewrite of my rewrite is a substantial improvement. If you put it in as the lede to the article, I will support you. If you have no objection, I would like to begin by one of us putting it on the Conservatism in the United States talk page and asking for comments and suggestions. Rick Norwood (talk) 21:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Neoconservatism in the People's Republic of China

I removed the proposed deletion template you re-added to the article. Per WP:PROD, you may not add the template to the same article a second time. You are welcome to take the article to WP:AFD if you like, in order that there can be a larger discussion of the relevance of this article. If you need help with that process, let me know and I'll be glad to assist. Thanks. —BradV 23:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Left-wing politics

In response to your question on my talk page, could you be more specific? What position would you like a reference for?Spylab (talk) 22:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Fascism

Thanks for your message. I looked at the section (not yet at the entire article) and I think I see it a little different from you. That introductory section (are we talking about the same thing?) is just one sentence, and I haven't looked at the footnotes. I don't agree that "much of the article is devoted to 'left-wing' fascism"--though it does seem to me that the balance is a bit off. The first sentence suggests equal weight on left, right, and center, and the section (correctly) places emphasis on right. As far as I'm concerned, 'left' and 'center' have no business in that first sentence, but editing that is probably an invitation for an edit-war. Sorry, I'd like to look more in-depth, but I have to make dinner first. ;) Drmies (talk) 00:26, 22 February 2009 (UTC)