Siegje

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Hello, Siegje, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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File uploads and copyright

You have uploaded quite a few image sto Wikipedia, some of them pending OTRS permission, some licensed as CC3.0. It seems very doubtful that you have permission from all these quite diverse institutions to donate their logos to Wikipedia (I notice that these include institutions from Wallonia, Brussels, Flanders). Please don't upload any imagse unless you are the copyright holder for them, or you have prior permission from the copyright holder (not "your boss") to upload them with a compatible license. Fram (talk) 10:22, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

I have just answered to the questions with regards to two logos on this Talk Page.

Could you advise whether this is the right way of answering such questions? Also, most of the pictures that we are using were either sent to us bu our Belgian Spirit partners, or taken from the websites of the companies/designers in question. We have been in touch with these companies before and have used their pictures in other, non-public documents that were sent to partners in Hong Kong. Is this enough or do we need an explicit okay from the owners of each of the pictures before we can legitimately use the pictures? And how do you verify whether we have been given permission? Do we need to show you a copy of an email by the owner, or...? Thanks and kind regards.

Siegje (talk) 10:13, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Siegje. Image copyright is a fairly complex issue, but it boils down to this: Because Wikipedia's content is release under a free licence (WP:CC-BY-SA), which allows anyone to reprint, copy, alter, sell and otherwise reuse it, any content which is added to Wikipedia from another source must also be released under a similar licence. Otherwise, Wikipedia is guilty of relicensing content for free use when said content is not actually free.

What this means in terms of images is that we must have proof that they are free. If they have been previously published on the internet, then the page on which they are published must contain a declaration that its content is available under CC-BY-SA (or similar). You will need the copyright owner (usually, but not always, the original photographer or media agency) of each individual image to agree to freely release that image under the terms of the CC-BY-SA licence; basically agreeing that anyone, anywhere, can reuse the image for any purpose (including commercially) provided they attribute it back to its original source. That agreement either needs to be made explicit in the images original location (if online) or emailed from a proprietory email address associated with the copyright holder to permissions.en@wikimedia.org.

The only exception to this is if the image falls under Wikipedia's Fair Use policy; that is to say, it is a vital addition to the article and no free alternative exists or could exist. That could well be the case here if the logos are used in articles about those entities. Yunshui 雲‍水 10:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

雲水你好！For the logos of the different partners, these are indeed the only logos that can be used. In any case, if we are requested to provide more back-up material concerning the other logos (it seems that only 2 of them were singled out), then we will do what is needed to secure express permission from the organisations in question. As for the other photographs, we will seek permission for each of the pictures that we wish to incorporate into the page; this will take some time, and maybe it is better that we first delete those for which we cannot give you clear proof of permission at this time. Siegje (talk) 11:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

In some instances (such as File:Flanders Fashion Institute.jpg) the logo is simple enough to be non-copyrightable, and hence can be used as if it were in the public domain. Most of your uploads though, would require either fair use terms or free licensing (I'd work on a fair use basis, if I were you, since not many companies would allow their corporate logo to be freely reused and amended without their permission). If you were planning to use them in individual articles on the companies involved, you'd have a good case. However, if you were intending to use them in the Belgian Spirit article to provide a list of companies I fear you'd be out of luck: there's no reason such a list could not be adequately presented in the text, and the addition of such images (with the exception of File:Belgian Spirit.png) would not add sufficiently to a reader's understanding of an article about Belgian Spirit to warrant their use. Yunshui 雲‍水 12:18, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, that makes total sense. We will delete the pictures then. We added them for aesthetic reasons, but this is not the priority at Wikipedia, which we fully understand. Cheers. Siegje (talk) 12:23, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Alright. I can do that for you if you wish (you need admin rights for such deletions); just say the word. Yunshui 雲‍水 12:26, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, please do, thanks. Would it make sense for you to delete all the other pictures as well, so that we go back to the basics and only upload pictures once we are pretty sure about the background and permission? If so, then kindly do that as well. Thanks. Siegje (talk) 12:29, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Okey-doke. I'll leave any that can be retained as PD, but remove the rest. If you need guidance on images, the Image Use Policy is the place to start (or just ask!). Cheers, Yunshui 雲‍水 12:38, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, TX. Siegje (talk) 12:43, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I've removed everything except File:Flanders Fashion Institute.jpg, File:Design Flanders.png (both of which are minimal enough to be in the public domain) and File:Belgian Spirit.png (which I believe from the information there is your own creation, and is a good addition to the article you're working on). If you want them gone as well, let me know. Yunshui 雲‍水 12:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Belgian Spirit

Your article submission Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Belgian Spirit is very promotional. We are an encyclopedia, not a webhost where you can post press releases. Wikipedia articles must be written from a neutral point of view, based on reliable, independent sources; e.g. newspapers articles about Belgian Spirit, not things taken from the Belgian Spirit website or related organisations. Fram (talk) 10:22, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Answer: Hi Fram, we're pretty new to this, so I am hoping that this is the right way to talk to you. Concerning the article submission being very promotional, I understand that there is promotional aspect to it. However, in our opinion all these items are facts; the thing is, seeing as Belgian Spirit is a project that will come to fruition in December 2013, it is a work in progress. As such, there are not that many external sources that could 'verify' some of the statements. Actually, many statements are statements of fact, so I am not sure how to change them or make them more neutral. What I will do is look at the text again and try to look at it from a third-party perspective, and see what can be changed. Indeed, we have already made quite a few changes to some of the original texts, but maybe we can try harder, so as to get closer to a less promotional tone.

Any advice on this is greatly appreciated.

Siegje (talk) 10:13, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry to say it, but if you genuinely believe that the following examples represent a neutral and non-promotional tone then you need to re-read Wikipedia's neutrality policy very closely:

• "The Belgian Spirit is the expression of a set of concepts that are characterised by sensitivity to quality and detail, and a desire to share this with the world. Belgian designers are inspired by both the vastness and the constraints that the world in which we live presents to us, and by the opportunities and the challenges that it offers"
• "They are culturally sensitive and aspire to create design according to the context in which it will be used. The success of Belgian designers all over the world is testimony to that. "
• "synchronise their desire to make a mark on the world’s stage"
• "Italy has the honour of showcasing its design"
• "one of the main pillars of our drive for internationalization."
• "Belgian architects are sought after for their ability to come up with solutions to challenges of space and budget"
• "building masters develop a long-term vision in regard to achieving this high quality architectural environment"
• "a strong identity which stems from an appreciation of local values, context and observation."
• "Belgian architect bureaus ... have spread their wings in the international architecture world"
• "Belgian Spirit Team will strive to make BoDW 2013 a resounding and long-lasting success."
• "Belgians possess the expertise to design and produce products that make a difference to people all over the world."

That's just from the first couple of sections; the rest is just as bad. None of the above would look out of place on a corporate website advertising Belgian Spirit; if you honestly cannot see that, you have clearly spent far too much time working in marketing!

With regards to verifiability, it is a basic requirement of Wikipedia that all information be verifiable. Whether it's true in your opinion (indeed, whether it's true at all) is entirely irrelevent; if the information has not previously been published in reliable source, it doesn't belong in Wikipedia. It may well be that at this time Belgian Spirit simply does not meet Wikipedia's basic inclusion requirements; if that's so, no amount of re-editing the draft will make it suitable. Yunshui 雲‍水 10:50, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

LOL. I do not genuinely believe anything, hehe. Today I haven't had the time yet to look at the text again (it's a bit busy these days in the office, to put it mildly), so was hoping for some examples of what is wrong; and you have provided them very clearly! We shall work on that in the coming days, probably by cutting out all the promotional stuff that we see above. Cheers. P.S. I have never been in marketing as such, but as a linguist I do like using language to get a message across. :-) Siegje (talk) 11:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Image tagging for File:Flanders Investment & Trade.jpeg

Thanks for uploading File:Flanders Investment & Trade.jpeg. You don't seem to have said where the image came from or who created it. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.

To add this information, click on this link, then click the "Edit" tab at the top of the page and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Wikipedia:Image use policy
• Wikipedia:Image copyright tags

Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 11:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Image tagging for File:Flanders Fashion Institute.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Flanders Fashion Institute.jpg. You don't seem to have said where the image came from or who created it. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.

To add this information, click on this link, then click the "Edit" tab at the top of the page and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Wikipedia:Image use policy
• Wikipedia:Image copyright tags

Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 11:06, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation

Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit if you feel they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Belgian Spirit.
• To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, or on the . Please remember to link to the submission!
• You can also get live chat help from experienced editors.

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! SarahStierch (talk) 21:18, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello! Siegje, I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there!

Your submission at AfC Belgian Spirit (August 25)

Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. The submission has not been accepted because it included copyrighted information, which is not permitted on Wikipedia. You are welcome to write an article on the subject, but please do not use copyrighted work.

The existing submission may be deleted at any time. Copyrighted work cannot be allowed to remain on Wikipedia.

• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, or on the . Please remember to link to the submission!
• You can also get live chat help from experienced editors.

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Tazerdadog (talk) 05:41, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Belgian Spirit.png

The file File:Belgian Spirit.png has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

orphaned file, no foreseeable use

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jon Kolbert (talk) 16:12, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Design Flanders.png

The file File:Design Flanders.png has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

orphaned file, no foreseeable use

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jon Kolbert (talk) 16:12, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Flanders Fashion Institute.jpg

The file File:Flanders Fashion Institute.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unused logo with no article used, it's also can't move to commons because of an unused logo will be deleted as of out of project scope.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Willy1018 (talk) 14:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)